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Belief
After a short unbeaten run of five games it’s all come crashing down to Earth at St Andrews after a heavy 4-0 defeat to Watford on Saturday. Judging by the comments on here and elsewhere the fanbase is deeply divided over what is happening at Blues with the only common factor appearing to be apathy towards the club in general.
I will admit that on reflection I can understand why some people thought my match report was “kneejerk” – I’m not normally given to wailing and gnashing of teeth and I suspect I was a lot angrier on Saturday than I had been for a while about Blues. However, my opinion hasn’t changed in that I think what could have been a much better scoreline – particularly as some players like Nathan Redmond, Chris Burke and Jack Butland as examples played well. However Blues were let down by some strange selection choices and a lack of response to the situation in game – all of which unfortunately point to the manager and coaching staff.
The upshot is now that Tuesday’s game is most definitely a “must win” fixture. Blues still lie in 17th but are still only four points clear of the relegation zone having played a game more than Barnsley. Their visitors on Tuesday are Sheffield Wednesday, who lie three places and two points below us and defeat will see them at least overtake us. A win will help to put more points between Blues and the teams below them and as we enter the business end of the season that is vital.
The Zigic issue apart, for me Clark has some to sort some big problems out. The left hand side against Watford was abysmal; Robinson doesn’t look fit and Hall looks like he needs a break. Clark has to be brave and to bring in the youth of Hancox into the left back slot because there is no way the team can carry Robinson any more. Likewise, there is need for someone like Redmond or maybe Elliott in front of him because Hall was anonymous going forwards and non-existent defensively. Watford deliberately targeted the left flank from early on and got some great results – no doubt the Owls will have seen that and will look to do similar if we let them.
Clark has been bold and bullish in press conferences of late – he didn’t hold back about Zigic and he wants to be firm in his belief that he’s doing the best job he can. I have no problem with that whatsoever – but the corollary is that if things don’t work out the only person who can carry the can is Clark. If he’s to succeed in the next two games he needs to ensure that the team out on the field is adequately equipped to do the job that they are supposed to do and more importantly he needs to instil the conviction and belief in them that they can win.
I will reaffirm here I want Clark to succeed – I want nothing more than him to prove to us all that he can put together a team capable of putting points on the board and pulling out of this mess. I never, ever want a Blues team to fail and I’ll be there supporting them every game I can get to. However, I will also confess that I’m struggling to believe that he can do it any more and maybe like many others, I need that faith reaffirming. I want to believe – but it’s down to Clark and the team to show the way.
Tags: Lee Clark
161 Responses to “Belief”
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CLARK OUT!
I SANG IN SUPPORT OF NIKOLA ZIGIC I’VE NAILED MY COLOURS TO THE POST!
WHEN CLARK GROWS A PAIR OF KNACKERS AND WALKS AWAY AND IS LONG GONE I’LL STILL BE RENEWING MY SIX SEASON TICKETS!
If Zigic did not put in a shift in triaining and has done it before it was the right thing to drop him. The problem Saturday was the reluctance to replace Hall and Robinson, one not performing , one either injured or off the pace.As Tats said the fans are divided, we need to stick together stay up and get new owners only then can things get sorted out.
You must have a big behind Tilton
Big family mate! Pay over a grand so i have a big opinion!
It’s like mob rule, no problem with the reasoned arguments for wanting Clark out, but Tilton10 which I can only assume is your IQ, I feel Clark has more balls than you pal, as at least he had a go at Zigic for his piss poor effort, you’re just a sheep. Big whoop you think you have more right to an opinion because you buy more season tickets!
I thought Clark was the best available at the time, or the best that we could persaude to take the job, and still do, there is no replacement available and no money for loans. Clark has never had a fair crack of the whip, with monthly contracts, injuries etc, and as for the supporters, you jumped on Pannu when he said the atmosphere wasn’t helping, yet how right he is!
Blue in Spain, how do you know Zigic has a poor attitude? You’re in Spain, can you point to any public criticism from his previous managers? How about criticism from McLeish or Hughton? Or the Serbian coach who made Zigic his captain?
The only person who has slagged Zigic off is the man who slagged Jervis off after his first 20 minutes in a Blue shirt in the league. And who has also reputedly annoyed seemingly half the squad – who certainly and conspicuously failed to put in a shift on Saturday.
The rumour is Clark had bollixed up training on Thursday so seriously that senior players told him he was going wrong. His response? Hanging Zigic out to dry. If the players were so annoyed about Zigic swinging the lead, they would have shown it on Saturday. They didn’t. They joined in in sympathy.
Baf, just read Tattums view of the match, and when asked about Zigic, Clark made a comment about “does the tail wag the dog”.Does this mean Zigic was questioning the manager I wonder, that would certainly tie in with the rumour on the free forum site. We’ve all assumed that Clarks outburst referred to Zigic’s physical efforts, maybe its more to do with his attitude towards Clark’s coaching/tactics.
Blue army faction, How do you know any of this. Oh rumours from the same sources that got it wrong before about alleged incidents, in other words old ladies. Well firstly Blue army he cant get in the Serbian side. Did you watch Zigic in the world cup, he was absolutely awful and for some strange reason you are making a martyr out of Zigic who never scores more than around 12 to 14 goals in a season and his on how much. I think you people make some very strange heroes. To hell with Zigic seriously. If he had any quality whatsoever, don’t you think someone would want to buy him. The only team that wanted him wanted us to pay half his wages. yer real quality there then, Sigh.
No abuse from Tilton10, yet Blue In Spain decides to insult him.
Is there any way users can be banned based on their IP, Almajir? This guy has caused more arguments in the past couple of days than the loss itself!
Yes they can Kaje.
Is it worth looking into it for Blue In Spain and – perhaps – Paul Carter?
Both insult more people than any other poster I’ve ever seen post – anywhere!
Kaje
Is it worth not telling the owner of a website how to run their site?
I’m quite capable of moderating comments etc as I see fit…
No offence was intended, Al! I just wasn’t sure if you’d picked up on them!
I certainly didn’t mean to tread on your toes!
Claret & Blue in Spain & Voice of the Vilers….?
[comment edited – no mate, no personal insults. enough.]
no abuse from Tilton 10 so it’s perfectly ok to tell Clark to grow a pair of knackers and do one…. Kaje, it would appear your definition of abuse needs updating!
[comment edited – leave it]
There was no personal abuse directed at you, yet you felt the need to have a personal pop at him – what’s the need for you to fight Lee Clark’s battles?
At least he goes to games…
So what…………
I think he has far more of a right to an opinion. He’s paying over a grand to the club.
On that basis, Yeungs opinion is the only one that counts then!
I believed Clark was the wrong appointment on Day One and I stand by that now…
In our awful off field situation and with the troubles with finances, we shouldnt have employed a rookie manager who’s achieved nothing in management other than a sacking at a League 1 club for failing to win promotion, when he had a significantly bigger budget than every other team in that league, aswell as a goal machine striker that all clubs would love in Jordan Rhodes.
We needed experience, an older head who could do just what Hughton did… put up barriers around himself and the players, and the fans kind of… keep the board and its issues out, and not make us a circus to the media… this helped him win over our players, get his philosophies across and the players, and us fans bought into it immediately and we had, in my opinion, the most enjoyable season I personally have had following Blues in my 23 years.
Clark is the exact opposite. Cannot handle the media very well in my eyes, his man management has been criticised from his Huddersfield days, and ive seen little to think this has improved (the Redmond criticism which made his mother pipe up on Twitter, and the Jervis comments (aswell as the Zigic debacle) prove this).
Tactically he’s inept, as you say, our left hand side was atrocious, and continually targetted, yet he had no idea how to shore it up and sort it out, all it wouldve took was, for example, putting Elliott wide left, and swap Hall for a CM… but oh no, he just stuck with it with blind faith and hoped suddenly something would change… that just DOESNT HAPPEN.
IMO there is no co-incidence in the fact we’ve heard about trouble between players/management more this season than any other I can remember… the worst we’d had prior to Mr Clark’s “reign” was the Hossam Ghaly incident wasnt it?
Clark has to go, but unfortunately this cant and wont happen until the ownership is changed, or he decides to walk away (cant see it)
It’s two thirds through the season and still lee clark hasn’t got blues to keep a clean sheet. If you need to score 2 goals every game to win then your on to a loser. going forward the players don’t seem to now what to do with the ball there s a lack of movement. the crossing is attrocious. We get numerous set peices but you never expect them to score from them the free kicks are always the same lump the ball into the box and hope that davies or caldwell can get on the end of it.The corner usually go to the goalie or defneders. we give the ball away far to much as well. one dimensional play. total crap!
No clean sheets? Peterborough and Bristol City at home, Leeds and Brighton away?
agree with everything you sau apart from the Zigic comment. Tilton10 I’m pleased you can afford to by 6 season tickets (I wish I could) but it doesn’t allow you more of a right to comment on Blues.
Perhaps he is speaking on behalf of ,and with full permission of the other 5 people whose tickets they are, that would give him the right to speak ..
ok Chas, so is he Paul and his egos then……
:-) Very good, Staff..
This is getting like the ‘end days’ of Ms Thatcher.
Nobody ever admitted that they voted for her, especially after the Poll Tax.
Now it seems, everybody was against Lee Clark when he was appointed.
Well, I wasn’t against him then, but I am worried now. BUT I am NOT against him.
Like AJ – I DO want him to succeed – for Blues’ sake if nothing else.
What I don’t understand is the slagging of just about every player, except St Jack,.
OK…all our players are rubbish? So, that’s what the manager has to work with – – Rubbish Players.
But at the same time it is Clark’s fault for them being rubbish.
You really have to laugh at this convoluted logic.
People want to have a bite at our players, but they also want to have their bite at Clark,
so 2+2 = 5.
Syllogism defines reason, but it has to be deductive and rational.
Not Emotional and rash.
Clark has a Big job on his hands and if the players buy into the ‘Blues Ethic’ –his job will be easier–if they are only here for the dosh, then he must upgrade the kids.
PS
Anyone notice that every villa match report always mentions the “young” side, as if it was an explanation for failure? National and Local reports.
Villa ever played 7 teenagers?
No.
But we have. And we’ve won and drawn. No mention of 7 teenagers on the pitch nor 9 teenagers in the matchday squad.
Just a thought…
Letsby, the ONLY logical arguement for keeping / defending Clarke centres around the logic that he’s been unlucky with injuries (true) that’s he’s had no money to spend (true…ish) and that there’s no point anyway, we’re stuck with him becuase we can’t afford to pay him off.
OK – let’s take that third arguement and apply it to the Zigic case. We have 4 strikers (push 6 if you inlcude a couple of the youth development squad) who have 1st team experience at this level, one of which is a League 1 reserve on loan. Another one is clearly struggling with knee problems (marlon King) and I fear will miss more than he plays for the rest of the season. Given these facts, why would you alienate one of the remaining 2 strikers ? Yes Zigic is on too much money, yes he should score more goals – but for F**** sake, he can’t do this if he’s a) on the bench, b) not in the squad.
The same arguement people use to defend Clarke applies to Zigic – we can’t afford to pay him off, so all we can do is use him, and hope he scores the goals to keep us up / change matches – which he has proved this season he is more than capable of.
Like Almajir – this inciden’ s the final straw as far as I’m concerned with Lee Clarke. We had just built up a bit of momentum, a bit of self-belief, and in one instant through utter crap media and man-management, Clarke manages to disspiate it all. I don’t believe Zigic would have made any difference against Watford (who we know are a very good team) but I can’t help thinking the toothless attack encourged Watford to push forward more, and 4-0 (which will undoubtedly shake team confidence prior to Sheff Wed could have been avoided.
I’ve watched Blues play under Goodwin, Bell, Ramsay, Smith, Saunders, Bond, Pendrey, McKay, Macari, Cooper, Fry, Francis, Bruce, McLeish, Hughton and now Clarke and out of all that list I can honestly say that Clarke is fighting McKay for the worst manager ever. And by the way, Hughton and Cooper had bugger all money as well, but they still got us promoted / into the play-offs.
I pray Clarke will make me eat humble pie very soon – but I very much doubt it.
Letsby Avenue. I’m really liking your comments lately. I have fallen into a similar trap with my views on Zigic, and i should keep strum about it but all this Saint Nikolas nonsense for an over rated over priced player just makes me laugh. Some fans here turning it into a soap opera with poor hard done by Nicky Baby and the wicked evil Clark. I’m just waiting as if people keep knee jerking they will surely fall over. let them have their little say and of course as they all swear they was right all along and let them raise Holloway Circus again which suddenly all went quiet too.
Makes me laugh that the ones that not long ago was making racial remarks and pure insults at Clark and Clark defenders are now appealing to AL to ban the naughty offensive Mr Blue in Spain for being so insulting. Makes me laugh really it does. Blue, they are setting you a trap mate, don’t fall into it, keep cool and let events eventually make them look foolish. Don’t take the bail. I agree with most of your comments but People like Tilton like to run to teacher and cry. Just stay cool. Concern is fine, Hysteria isnt gonna help in any way. All i can say is lets wait and see.
Peterboro game coming round at bad time as they really on form. Its not a must win, i fail to listen to hysterics but its a must start to get some more solid performances in though that’s for sure. Only consolation is on other sites they are worse with the hysteria and the bloggers not too bright either. Al your doing fine mate, rational is back and happy you reflect, more than many do.
Oh and to be fair, im not sure Tilton was part of those insulting and racial comments, so as regards that i take it back. I don’t recall seeing him do that. But lately getting a bit silly.
GOODBYE PLEASE
This St Andrews soap almost drives me to tears
This boss is the worst in my fifty plus years
Preparation, selection and tactics are poor
Then the camera rolls and he looks at the floor
He mumbles and grumbles like a turkey from Mars
He’s dividing our fans and destroying our stars
His overpaid coaches (whatever they earn)
Would be better employed as a comedy turn
The criminal trial in which Carson Yeung stands
Like the sale and accounts it lies out of our hands
But Birmingham City is our football team
It’s all about players living ‘our dream’
Oh for a Hughton, a Bruce or a Fry
Even Big Eck could have one more try
Before all hope of survival has past
Action is needed and needed fast
Whatever the cost of a change at the top
It’s a pittance compared to the pain of the drop
Three P45s with (ouch) 12 months pay
Please Mr Pannu do it TODAY!
I love that!
Excellent, nicely put together….
top marks fella
IF CLARK GOES….WHO’LL REPLACE HIM????. People keep shouting for him to go but who else in their right mind would take the job?, there are a lot of good managers out of work at the moment but would they come to St Andrews in our current predicament?, I think if a new manager were to come in they’d need a hell of a lot of reassurances which I don’t think Pannu can give.
Yes they would. In the football world in England it is a fairly big job.
Surely it would be a win win for any out of work manager. They keep us up they’re a hero, they don’t then they have the best excuse!!
The club can only move forward with the current owners, board and lackeys moving on, we don’t really need or want CY’s mates mving in, just a clean break and fresh impetus. LC with some decent backing might turn out to be a decent manager.
Lackeys?
Henchmen/Cronies/Associates
Yes the term isn’t abusive at all is it!
you nit pick more than a nagging wife……
I went to the corresponding fixture earlier in the season. And the one thing Wednesday did have was quick wingers. This is going to be one hell of a tough game. We need to install,hancox to left back for this game. Robinson is struggling to play 2 games in a week. We were lucky to finish with 11 on the field Saturday as if Robinson had been a little faster he would have got sent off.
Can Spector not play left back?
Wanted Clark when appointed. He has wrecked the squad and we lost 5-0 at home to Barnsley!
Anyone would be better now IMO.( least then we would get Fahey back in CM)
Fahey is back training with the club, announced on the official website earlier today….
Trying to work that one out. Is it implying that Fahey doesnt want to play for Clark so the personal reasons are made up. I hope ive misread you quick but if i hadnt, its just getting funnier. But actually his back in training now. I suppose even though it will take weeks for him to be match fit, his omission on Saturday will be down to a feud with Clark :) I have to smile.
I believe that this job was far too much for some of Clarks inexperience and how he has proved it with his tactics which have been bewildering. With the present situation at the club it requires somebody with alot experience and can work with next to nothing cash. Again somebody like Curbishley springs to mind but because he hasnt worked for a while then that would rule him out. We have to keep believing that things will improve in the not to distant future because we have been in similiar situations so many times before and thats why i will always hold on to belief. There is somebody out there that is just waiting to see wot happens and just maybe things will get better
So after saying Clark out on Saturday you are changing your mind? Why? To hold the bloke accountable to a result against a top side when we have been unbeaten and performed well the five games before is pretty simplistic TBH. Look at the overall situation at this club, it is the owners who should be getting the stick. Why people back Zigic I haven’t a clue. If this is the fourth time he has tossed it off in training, whose fault is that? Clark’s? No. Zigic let us down when we needed him. As for Jervis, people taking notice of a very poor, bitter player? Blues fans do my head in they are like sheep and can’t see a bigger picture here. Try looking for it in Hong Kong
Fordie,
i think many can see the bigger picture and who is really to blame, but there are so many rumours and some may be true and some will not be.
i was all for zigic’s punishment but the rumour of that it was over tactics and training methods, i could believe that too, so i don’t know who to believe.
that is the problem throught the club, players spouting off about they know what is wrong and they will get it right, but seldom do, or LC spouting off then counter stories appear, and a board and owners who give half truth’s about offers or discussions on the sale of the club so others are interested then say nothing can happen till BIHL accounts are published.
The whole lot seem to be in Walter Mitty land and we have to make sense of it all.
Fordie, do you know for sure that Clark called Zigic out four times ? We have Clark’s word for that, no-elses , so i am a bit dubious.. And it isnt onley the Watford result that has upset a ot of people, it was , if I read it correctly, the lack of tactics and the performance from the Team, with Clark doinbg nothing to change things when it was obvious that things werent working.. I think that was the first really bad hammering that Blues have taken in 52 years of following them that I wasnt feeling sick all everning afterwards.
everyone wants to be the manager of blues it appears on this blog,, get real people. watford were better team simple as that. It is not the manager fault. IF CLARKWETRUST had put the younger players in and they got HAMMERED further against watford what would have so call fans said. then.. same thing Clark out. board out.. . get the picture. support your team in joys and sorrows. Lots of so-fans who think they have a divine right by way of their season ticket bullshine. We our support team through good times and bad, and that what true blues supporters do. Please remember being a blues supporter is not just for Wembley…..its for life…its in your blood…no matter how bad it gets.. we stand firm………KRO til the end of the road….and so on if you are not sure then you are not fan of this club. i will be there at the end of the road, Birmingham see you all on Tuesday..
supporting my team and my manager..
Can we please put to bed this myth that Watford are a better team so defeat was inevitable.
On that basis we wouldn’t have turned up at Wembley to play Arsenal.
In a recent Jose Mouriniho documentary , his ethos was, you will at times have to play better teams, but still have to find a way to beat them.
Sadly Clark is no Mouriniho
top comment, well said, can we hear a Paul or Spanish comment??????
Yes staffordhire bluenose, I may nit pick like a nagging wife, but you seem to be stalking me like a jealous girlfriend!
he likes you blue
It all went bad for Clark as soon as we all saw how bad Mullins and Ambrose were at the beginning of the season. They were his big guns and they just didn’t produce for whatever reason. I think if we don’t get 4 points from the next 2 games we are gone. I couldn’t care less whether Clark goes or not now but one thing for sure he shouldn’t be there next season.
Ambrose yes, but i wouldn’t say Muggins was one of his ‘big guns’.
Loverman was hyped up as a great signing too & he’s done bugger all since he got here!
Ladies and Gents,
Lets worry about the board, the manager, the players , but lets leave it out until season end. Clark and the players are the only ones who can save us now and our villification will not help us to stay up. The next 2 and a half months is all about us staying up. Lets get behind the team, sing the managers and players names. Then say what you like, time and place and all that! KRO.
In a situation like this the chairman or is it acting chairman, should intervene and have a chat with both Lee Clark and Zigic. Surely from the outside Blues are starting to be seen as a joke. A split between the manager and a player or could it be players? Scuffles between supporters along with apathy on the terraces, iv said time and again the club is in a complete mess and its at the top where it started, it filters down and its now on the terraces. The next couple of games are crucial if Blues are to avoid sitting on the Championship trap door, i for one hope Zigic comes back with total commitment because the big fella can be unplayable on his day and can be the difference for us.
Absolutely, could you imagine (for all her faults) Brady letting Zigic and Clark remain unscathed in the press?
Pannu needs a backbone.
So you advocate that Clark should keep the details of his spat in house, yet you say Pannu should go public with his reprimand of any employees, does the word hypocrisy mean anything to you?
A commercial brain and a conscience would also be good.
Sadly you’re right about apathy in one way, at the ground. If only people made as much noise at St Andrew’s as they do online….
I’m hoping for a huge response from Zigic tomorrow night. My worry is, if Clark starts him, the Clark Out folks will be saying “We told you that you got it wrong.” If he doesn’t, the Clark Out folks will be saying he’s clueless. The only way Clark can “win” is starting Zigic, and Zigic having a ‘mare. But then they’ll say “You destroyed his confidence.” I simply say back the team, simple.
Keep Right On
How do you kow Zigic will paly tomorrow..They dont train today as far as I know, so that leaves one day to convince Clark that he (LC) was wrong.. as LC seems to be as stubborn as a Mule, that will be hard.
I don’t know Chas. Didn’t say he would. Clark said he was ready to select him. I did suggest Clark may not, however…
Team trained Sunday and Ziggy was our best performer!
It could be worse. We could be Wolves.
So zigic got crusified by clarke. There were 11 first team players out there on Saturday maybe they should also get the criticism that Zigic has got. Lets face it if we had genuine owners in place,Clarke wshould of been sacked after our home defeat by Barnsley.
Now this I agre with.. That match was the worse game I have ever seen Blues play ion over 52 years of supporting them..I watched it on TV and McDermott just sat looking at his feet and spitting everytime the Camera panned onto him, which was a hell of a lot of times..
I’ll be honest, the only criticism I had by me was for Hall and Robinson. And some early Gomis pass attempts. To be honest, on the whole, the rest of the team was alright, despite the collective cockup at the end. Yeah, Watford had dominance, but so did blues. And how many attempts to score? Lovenkrands should have, with a tap in! Davis should have too but I’ll forgive him for his run up the middle ;)
And look at the stats, more possession yet less shots and only two out of seven on target. They have 9/12. They were more accurate by far and the supply was better. There wasn’t a problem getting balls in from the right, the centre was fine. Upfront it looked more like Thomas was there to disrupt the back four for Lovenkrands, then again he did keep pressure on to a degree.
Did blues look like scoring…yes, they did. But they were up against a top string of international mercenaries.
We av been unlucky not having murphy fit for me a quality left back prob best in league with assists and goals in him 2,massive loss this season him out and its being shown with our clean sheet record,for me ran burke close last year for player of season
Let’s look at LC’s transfer dealings this season and rate them as either “Success” or “Failure”.
Ambrose,Mullins,Lovenkrands,Gordon,Hurst,Morrison,Papa Diop,Hall,Robinson and Thomas are all “Failures”. Caddis is a “Success”.
That being so means that LC has a transfer success rate of 1in10!
That’s a little unfair on Robinson, Diop, Morrison and Hall.
Robinson had, up until yesterday, looked a competent – if ageing – full back.
Diop looked like a solid central midfielder in his couple of appearances, and only didn’t feature further through our wage bill needing reducing.
Morrison has arguably looked to be our best central midfielder when he’s played, but Lee Clark appears to have an issue with giving him game time.
Hall has looked troublesome at times, but is still a going player who hasn’t had a great deal of first team action in his career so far.
…..and I will add to that….it’s WAY to early to call Thomas a failure. Game 1 vs Forest he wasn’t match fit, Game 2 vs Watford he wasn’t match SHARP, and had precious little to feed off. Game 3 and 4 define his worth in my eyes. Lets see shall we?
simple. outplayed, outclassed, beaten by a far better team whatever their quota off udinese
players they have. lets be honest their not the biggest off italian sides are they!
i never boo my team and never never will and i spend over a grand on season tickrts to,
so keep behind the team and clark and stop rocking the boat and making it worse. kro.
Whilst the personal abuse given out to Lee Clarke is inexcusable, I don’t believe that blind loyalty is the only alternative (or even an admirable trait)…. The club is unravelling. Whatever the upheavals behind the scenes its the managers job to manage players competently, put a team out to best represent the club from the resources available. Over the season Mr Clarke appears to been diplomatically inept in the handling of players on the pitch, and certainly in the media. Whatever the intent, his latest pronouncements have now had the effect of dividing the fan base. Sad to say, but whichever way you look at it, that is not a positive, even competent performance for such an important, key figure.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Ziggy training situation (and we only have Clark’s word for it) it should have been sorted out swiftly in-house with a hefty fine. Leaving Ziggy out on Saturday didn’t hurt his bank balance but it did hurt the team and if Clark’s stubbornness persists then without either of our two best strikers we’re stuffed frankly, cos on the evidence of Sat I don’t see Lovenkrands and Thomas scoring the goals we need to stay up.
It’s not a ‘must-win’ fixture tomorrow OP. I hate that phrase. So, if we draw or lose tomorrow, you are saying we are relegated then?
If we don’t win tomorrow we’ll be much closer to it happening than if we do. Tomorrow we play another team in the same mire as us, who can overtake us if they win. If you cannot understand the importance of picking up points at hoem against the teams around you…
Zigic – dropped because he doesn’t give his all in training, but does on match day.
Rest of the squad – might well give their all during unimportant five-a-side games, but simply do not turn up for the important league match.
Should the latter now be dropped? It’s only fair, is it not?
sheff w and peterboro are must win games if we are to move away from the drop zome end off!
I’m not a manager or coach, just someone who has been supporting Blues for 40 years. I only have a couple of questions with reference to team selection. The first is does anyone really think that Lovenkrands and Thomas are better strikers than Zigic ? The second is does anyone believe that Rob Hall is a better winger than Nathan Redmond?
Unfortunately Lee Clark does and thereby lies the problem.
1 zigic is better but should train properly.
2 from what ive seen this season hall propably shades it over redmond.
season ticket holder for 30 years. kro.
‘Blues were let down by some strange selection choices’ – that’s been the story all season.
Like Aljamir i was pretty angry on Saturday tarvelling back to London on a train full of Watford fans.
Not sure why Thomas was ever considered good enough for the Championship other than LC had seen him do well against Huddersfield. when he receieved the ball in the box on Saturday and fluffed it we missed King. It would have been instantly controlled and then shot.
Hall has become slower by the week. In his first appearances he was electric but now seems ro have lead in his boots. Mind you he had a reasonable game at the Valley last week.
Lovenkrands is a good player but starting him with such little recent game time was mad.
Welcome back Keith Fahey! SOS and KRO
I think LC is an honest guy trying to do his best in very difficult circumstances, he clearly is out of his depth in terms of media coverage and has made some very poor decisions recently that have divided fan loyalty. I just wonder what the more senior players must be thinking..!
However who at the club has he got to turn to for advice..? The comment about Brady..this would not have been allowed to develop under our last owners. Pannu must return and stop the rot. Things will only get better when the whole club starts pulling together, and this means leadership..! There is a great deal of difference between being a good manager and being an inspirational leader. Someone at the club needs to tell Clark to get his act together, we need an experienced leader to come to the fore. This person needs to galvanize the team and stop the divisive style of management destroying the club. I am just amazed at how much negative press there has been at times regarding certain players from LC. This is not the best way to motivate grown men in my opinion and we are all suffering because of his management style. I think he needs the support of more senior management at the club which has been missing for so long, so l Don’t put all the blame with LC even if he is out of his depth.
But he has two experienced men in McDermott and Fazackerley, does he listen to them or are they as clueless as he is.
Fazackerley was at Leicester with Eriksson, to me syas it all.
Remember when we beat them 3-0 at home last season and they didn’t have a clue, just how we play now.
Totally agree Cornish-we need a proper leader.Pannu is useless.He should be in Birmingham until the end of the season giving whatever help and support he can.
Yes PP should be living in a council house in Bordesley Green and conducting his negotiations on Facebook :)
i cant believe the man is so thick skinned, he knows hes taking dogs abuse, is incapable of doing the job as is his comic sidekicks and still he carries on taking the money. Disgusting the man has no honour.
I do feel for both sides of the story firstly Zigic if he,s not happy with the situation pull your finger out and do something about it simple……
Secondly Clarke if he,s not happy with how the guy is behaving pull him to one side and let him know in no uncertain terms its up to him to show he wants to be at Birmingham city football club not just on a Saturday or mid week but everyday but don,t go public it benefits no one especially the fans who turn out to watch the game
Our lives are led differently to footballers as they have the trappings of all that goes with it but the responsibility lies with all who play the game and are part of the game and I include the fans in that
If there was a premier league for moaners we,d have won the league by now and we could all put our feet up with a third of the season to go!
I moan every time we lose win to or draw – its built into us over the years and is past down from father to son….I do blame my grandad and dad as my sons blame me….
KRO if have no choice I,d rather be blue that vile
It’s not about supporting Zigic or Clark, it’s about supporting Birmingham City Football Club.
At the time the appointment of Clark looked like a good decision, but it hasn’t worked out, please look at the facts i.e. our points total and league position.
I’m also confident that there’s a large number of managers in leagues lower than us, that could and would do a much better job than Clark, and would jump at the chance to manage a club like Blues. The problem we have is that know body associated with the club appears to be in the know about….. football.
I see Fahey is back at Blues, no doubt that doesn’t fit the agenda of all the faceless rumour mongers that said he would never be back at Blues whilst Clark was manager…. How about a piece on that Dan??
Now ain’t that a coincidence…
Explain instead of the snide comments?
Blue, i feel i should not say this publicly and i should deal with it in house, but as its a forum, i cant :) Chill baby chill.
I think we all want to believe Al, but the sad situation is that the way the season has panned out on and off the pitch that alot of us have lost belief and hope, hence the atmosphere at matches, on here and on other forums.
I’ve wanted to give LC a chance over the past few weeks, but following on from Charlton last week, the ZIgigate fiasco and saturdays debacle against a decent Watford side I’ll be happy when we eventually see the back of him.
Unfortunatly for us fans, there is no easy fix that can come to help this dire situation, we just need to try and get behind the team (whoever plays) and hope for the best.
We as fans need to stop the in-house fighting and start banding back together, the way I’ve always seen us noses to be.
Teamwise, LC needs to make changes for Tuesday, its a game we must win but can’t afford to lose, same with P’boro. I believe the biggest changes need to take place at the back, Robo seems to have the years finally catching up to him, same with Caldwell. I’d be looking at a back 4 of Caddis, Ibanez, Davies, Mullins (at left back). MIdfield of Redmond, Reilly, Spector, Burke. with Eliott/Lovenkrands in behind/playing off Zigic. (wishfull thinking i know).
king plays if fit no danger.
morrisson plays also, but agree with pretty much the rest as long as zigic gets is act together!
Roll on the end of the season and be done with this pantomime. Past relegation seasons have been less painfull, then this one. The next two games are vital to our season I ask all blues fans unite in there support of what really matters winning, forget your hatred of Pannu and LC or CY or anyone else for that matter because there not fans we are, and we can make a difference, we have all witnessed how our support has scared teams rigid. Nobody else is going to save us time to stand up and be counted because I’m sorry if you don’t get down that ground your not Blues fans in my eyes
I’m still wiping away the tears from the post where the guy said he can’t go cos his family have to eat :)
Can you explain the point of this comment please.
I cant actually see whats funny about a guy that chooses to feed his family rather that pay for a football match,common sense if you ask me.
Oh well keep on laughing if it really amuses you,it says a lot about you.
Its ok I’m happy he can look himself in the eyes and say “I’m a good person”…… He and his best mate from Spain talk about people being racist, there isn’t anybody worse than an “the ego of Harry Enfield” (i.e. loads of money, I’ve go more money than you….). hopefully one day he’ll get a life????.
So as to Mr Clark, the best manager Blues have ever had…… Richard M makes a great point…. Not sure if Paul and his friend from Spain ever heard of Freddie Goodwin and Sir Alf??? What football we played then AND we were a selling club as well…
Ska, i think the point being that he resorted to emotions about starvation to justify himself and i think the line so my kids can eat was a little bit dramatic and just a little pee take about it, its not a biggy really is it.
Ambrose playing today in development team at leicester ,i thought he.d b a top signing 28 and always got goals from midfield i was pleased when clark got him,i av mates who support forest and wolves and they all said they wud av liked him,who knws a fit ambrose along with fahey back may b like 2 new signings
100% agree marky mark.
i will be one of the 12000 who might turn up tommorrow.
i
Need your 6000. Mates Dave
as for the zigic training thing,i know zigic is a big favourite with a lot of people,so what if clark wud av been slating say mullins about his poor training,im thinking most of the same people who are supporting zigic wud in that case b saying clarks done right fair play these over paid footballers etc,am i right?
No i dont think you are entirely Ed, I don’t think there would of been the same reaction with any other player to be honest, Zigic is kind of like marmite, you either love him or hate him, don’t think there is another player like that at blues that would of seen such a split with fans.
LC would still have come in for stick even if he had said the same about another player, firstly it would be questioned by fans, as he has not earned the right to do it. Secondly the player themselves would of said something, like Zigic has said with the mail I’ve heard. Thridly it would still have been handled in the same poor method as it has been.
Thats true blaneh and he does split the fans bigtime bit like jerome did but saying that looking back i dont think mcleish did jerome any favours,anyway on zigic hopefully if he gets the nod 2moz he dont let his anger get him in 2 trouble another sending off will do us no good but a couple of goals and a win will do nicely.
in my eyes yes mate!
It would be ironic if we got relagated and LC got sacked because he has already proved he can manage in that division.
I still think we can get the 10 -12 points we need but not on last weekends performance.
We are also more likely to get the points from away games than at home
All that next season will confirm is that there are two League 1 teams he couldn’t manage to promotion
I too do not want to watch LC fail at his job and his career. He does seem a passionate bloke and he also seems under the most incredible amount of stress as well. I would say that at Huddersfield, he had the support and finance behind him as well as owners who were present and the line of communication and understanding was there. The pressure obviously came on in his last season and resulted in him getting the boot. That I’m sure is because his scoresheet / results were under close inspection by the big boys at HTFC, as they were spending a lot of money in league one (memory tells me they were the richest club at that date in that league!).
Now, switch to BCFC and he was chosen because he was out of work, cheaper than all the rest and quicker to install. Sadly however, I would go as far as to say that all the things (good and bad) at HTFC that he was familiar with, are not happening here and he is on his own thanks to the head office being in Hong Kong, along with all the legal rigmarole surrounding the owner and shareholders, and just to rub it in, the bloke who gave him the job, who he was meant to report to went to HK with a cushy promotion, new job title and a fat pay rise. LC obviosuly was told he couldn’t spend anything, one in one out, and to be fair, I would say this is his baptism of fire and if he knows it isnt working, he needs time away to learn why it didn’t.
He is basically in a catch 22, however I do believe that his tactical choices are his downfall. If his silver haired support is advising him in this way, then they should come under just as much scrutiny as LC. The team he fielded on Saturday against Watford was 100% wrong. It showed no preperation and nothing to correct what it was not achieving.
We do have some good games coming up and I hope we can do well, but we need the ability and desire to do it, but I do think that LC has been the wrong choice for the situation we are in, that is all.
I said similar to my old man on Saturday, there is nothing on Lee Clark’s cv to suggest he was right for Blues at that time. We lost a mature,intelligent, professional man in Chris Hughton because he felt the job would be more difficult this season. We needed someone with the same qualities to take over.Whoever felt that LC was that man wants shooting, it has been a disaster for Blues and also for Clark as the job is way beyond his capabilities.
Sadly I think the only person who advised our acting chairman (PP) on picking LC was none other than masterchef himself …Pannu. Basically because he knew the sh*tstorm that was to come ..as he was the one restricting the cashflow, and by the time that the fans are all blaming this league one manager, they wont be blaming Pannu.
Yes Paulo, he certainly seems to have been hung out to dry. As I said in an earlier post, his two experienced lieutenants don’t appear to be much help to him, in fact they may even be pushing his buttons if some of the rumours are true.
Rumours are rarely true Carlos, and smoke without fire??? well yes if your looking for it then the steam from a kettle will constitute a fire. I have to smile as correct me if im wrong, but did Moreno actually apply. Keane >>>> well he didnt want it anyway probably and thank god. Curbishley i woulda liked but his not got the passion, he just wants the money which wasn’t enough for him. Holloway, well him saying blues fans are great may of flattered some egos, but not necessarily the right choice but we will never know. So as it happens we have Lee Clark. So what else is their to do but constructively criticize mistakes rationally but get behind him and the team till the end of the season and don’t be governed by hysterics. I really struggle with this Clark out mentality. The speculating is back and holds no ground just strange theories. Nothing more to do than support them . Belief is a faith that builds success. Even if your a doubter, then the best thing you can do for the club is get behind them and believe. You can ner ner ner ner ner all you want in May, but i believe they wont be as we will stay up and be mid table. But i guess for some that’s not enough either. Time will tell. Believe.
From recollection, didn’t Hughton recommend Clark?
Perhaps we can sue Hughton then, for misrepresentation?
I had heard that BiS, but I couldn’t see a connection unless he knew him from Newcastle.
I think Chris Hughton was simply being nice. I dont think he recommended LC as such, but I do remember him mentioning the kind of calibre that was needed for the job. (or I could be mistaken?)
Good leadership creates good morale creates good results.
Weak, ineffectual, indecisive and recklessly confrontational ‘leadership’ creates anarchy.
I don’t see any sign that the driver is in control of the bus. Time to prise his hands loose from the wheel. Before we go over the cliff.
You wouldn’t need to prise his hands of the wheel if he wasn’t in control – Bernard Wooley
If noone has already picked up on this…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2280505/Nikola-Zigic-Birmingham-despite-disgusting-boss-Lee-Clark-training.html
…got a bit of an odd look from my boss at work when I burst out laughing…
Fair play to Zigic for stepping up his training, regardless of what happened.
I like the way the video for ‘Bonkers’ was on the end of that.
every week not just sundays
Guys, gals, we have what we have! Fahey is back, Ziggy was best in training on Sunday, Ambrose might recover last season’s form now he is back. Ziggy play’s tomorrow. We all love the Blues – What is “THE BLUES”??? Its us as supporters, its the fabric of the club, its the history, it’s the memory of the supporters and players who have passed on and finally it is the players and the non playing staff fighting for our survival today. So today we support the Blues. We dont villify them. Every comment of villifaication at this moment in time is another nail in our Championship survival coffin. I love a good debate as much as the next person, but at this point in time, I am not interested in anyones attempts to criticise the players or the managers. I just wantr us to stay up. So I reiterate, get behind the team and save the criticism until such times as any criticism can influence our position to positive effect, cos at the moment you are simply putting us down. LITERALLY!! KRO.
Good postive outlook Sol. I for one am pumped for tomorrow. I would think Wednesday will bring a few and looking forward to a blood and thunder get stuck in performance from the boys. I always get a little more upbeat come match day so I’ll be thinking we can turnm them over (even if they’re prolific scorers at present)
Finger crossed he brings in Hancox if Robbo isn’t total match fit.
Does not matter if you like LC as a person or not. Simple fact is that he is not succeeding. 28 points dropped at home, more home defeats than victories.
As for the Zigic situation, has anyone confirmed Clarke’s opinion that he did not try in training?
As stated above no other manager has criticised his efforts. Seems to me they have a personality clash, which is a bad reason for leaving someone out of the team.
Roy – I totally agree. There is nothing historic regarding questioning of Ziggy’s aptitude. We’re only going on the word of LC. I wondered out loud on here yesterday if it’s a strained relationship and he isn’t only training for Clark. It could also be that Zigic is being made a scapegoat for something else we don;t know about. Pure speculation of course but it’s something I’ve considered when analysing the situation.
Can I just recommend the kit sale at the club? I have got the missis a replica shirt for her birthday. Was £40 down to £15. That’s love for ya.
I started to skim read after about the 40th post as its all the same platitudes and crap coming from our ‘fans’ and its the same reason I wind on the drivel on Match of the Day and Football League Show and just watch the games….cos it’s the same crap that everyone spouts!
Nobody here has the credentials or inside knowledge to come close to accurately commenting on the situation OTHER THAN what you see on the pitch and read in the media. Jumping to conclusions is fine (we all do it!!) but this in-fighting is getting venomous and its conducive to absolutely nothing.
Sheff Wednesday and Peterborough are NOT ‘must win’ games.
The only game that IS ‘must win’ is the one we have to pick 3 points up from to finish 4th from bottom this season, write the year off, start again and rebuild the squad, management and club with the appropriate tools for progression. That MAY still include Clark but it may not, and it may still involve Carson and Pannu, but may not.
In the meantime we need to hope the squad stay fit, Fahey and Ambrose can be re-introduced and make a difference, Thomas can find the net along with Lovenkrands, and Zigic and King can stay fit and discipline-free for the season’s final third.
Anything else is just unnecessary, energy sapping, mindless bitching. Al – you ought to charge 10p a post on here….we’d have been able to afford Lionel Messi by now with all the opinions we have going around, and maybe people would think twice before saying certain things too eh?
KRO
10p fee,!!. £ 10, fine for insulting language, !!!.
Bluenoseneil
The whole aim of a blog is to do exactly what you have just criticised. It’s a chance to air opinions and have a moan. I just wish people could do it without insulting each other, after all it would be a pretty boring world if we all agreed all the time.
oh how i agree, there is no need for the insults from two people in particular.
they may disagree and are entitled to state their own opinions on why, but just no need for the insults, which verge on bullying people not to come on here in future.
They complain on peole being negative, but miss the point of their own negativity.
so it’s ok to insult and abuse the manager, but not the person that has abused the manager? Hypocrites the lot of you. I only abuse posters that use abusive, language towards someone else, so if you give it, no matter to whom, accept it like a man, and stop whining like sissy girls. Too many people are far too precious on here!
Chris, your right but overlooking something. The abuse was coming the other way for a long time. The said people started biting back. Not everyone arguing with them now was involved fair enough but that’s the root of all this. Also insulting the board with insults and not constructive words was rampant as well as the manager and their have been some awful insults. Constructive criticism i can handle even if i don’t agree but the insults wasn’t from Blue and Paul most of the time believe me, i used to read them all. So maybe some should climb of there high horse and think back to some of the insults directed at individuals connected to the club which went far beyond constructive criticism. I think its that that has fueled the anger of Paul and Blue and in that i used to be similarly be disgusted. Blue maybe should calm down a bit and Paul maybe is sarcastic but they certainly ain’t worse than a good many that are slagging them either. Maybe we should all calm down and just make constructive remarks. Of course nobody has to talk like a christian but their are limits though. Were all blues and i heartily disagree with many of you. Sometimes ive lost my cool too. But seems to me a bit of a hatchet job going on with those that don’t agree with you too so best everyone just takes stock, cut out the insults to each other, but also the slander and speculations too abt manager and board. If you really feel someone is talking crap, its hard to say ur talking crap nicely, but i will try harder. Hope others on the anti side do too. Peace man lets share a spliff have a love in and be cool ok babies.
Fahey is back
http://www.bcfc.com/news/article/fahey-returns-to-training-662270.aspx
I hope the left wing will be taken up by him soon.
Know it’s hard but crowd need to stay behind the team tomorrow.
Like or loathe him he ain’t going anywhere till the end of the season at least. Young hungry but emotionally raw player such a reilly, hancox, redmond etc will really feed of crowd so need to be weary of reaction.
being honest i ain’t got much positive to say so the old agage during the game if you haven’t got anything good to say then say nothing at all.
Wouldn’t mind missing tomorrow but addiction’s a terrible thing, that sunny day in Maribor seems a long, long way away now
Goodness me!! reading some of the insults towards fellow bluenoses from the comfort of your computers shows a distinct lack of courage. Everyone has the right to a view. I’ve said from day one Clark was way below par, having spoken to someone at the club in the course of my work it was apparent that the players themselves “weren’t sure” about Clark. He actually had a poor record at his last club…too many draws. He’s been here long enough to have made his intentions show on the pitch… he has not to date!! He lacks man management, knowledge, strategy.. out of politeness I’ll stop there. Who will replace him?? who cares!!! whoever it is will be in a win win situation very shortly. Clark won’t walk he wants money… years ago he would have been hounded out but it’s not the done thing anymore. Relegation and a buyout will come after administration.
“In light of the January transfer window closing, the Board of Birmingham City Football Club would like to clarify certain matters to allay supporters’ concerns.Recent transfer activity set out to ADDRESS THE CLUB’S PRESENT FINANCIAL POSITION, whilst not wholly diminishing Lee Clark’s playing squad. THIS WAS ACHIEVED through the negotiation of the loan back of Jack Butland from Stoke City….” Administration??
Anyone know who the DJ/Announcer is at blues? I was just thinking, not heard Keep Right On sung on the terraces for quite some time… should have it played as the team comes out tomorrow night, might kick start a few of us into singing at least and I’m sure be a big lift to the lads out on the pitch.
KRO
Pete Tong…….as in , its all gone….
How can anyone “support” Zigic in this? Whatever the rights or wrongs of the manager making it public , the guy was taking the piss out of the entire club if his effort in training was that poor.
Agreed!
It’s a sad day indeed. Bluenose turning on Bluenose. No wonder we are in such a mess. Whatever your feelings on LC, Zigic, the board,being a more loyal supporter etc got to stop this pointless slanging match and try to remain positive. Paul the Voice of no reason was at least right in one respect…..too many “anti’s” as he puts it.
LC is not going anywhere. Zigic is not going anywhere. We’re stuck with them both. I know where we’ll be going if this negativity contines.
I am 75 years of age I have not been to a footbal match for over 15years but it is quite obvious that Mr Clark lacks the experiance to be a manager (1) in Butland he has the best young goalkeeper in the country he also has a central defender that premier clubs are interested in so how do you let four goals in, a football team is only as good as the manager and Birmingham City position in the league says it all.
TJ
The left side of the team cocked up. Basically.
Anything other than supporting what we do have until the final game’s end is pointless. So STOP posting “Clark out” and stop bickering. Show some solidarity and we might give the players the sense that we’re behind them.
[comment edited – no need for personal insults]
Two wins and fans are talking playoffs. Now it’s all doom again. If Zigic scores a hat trick then fans will be praising LC for giving him a much needed kick up the backside.
Then again they’ll be calling Clark an idiot for leaving him pit versus Watford. Lol.
Out
One thing that Clark has definitely done successfully is to divide the fans, and that can only be bad for the club.
Zigic’s name is one of the most popular in songs down at St Andrews; I don’t want to feel like singing his name is somehow a criticism of the manager and club. Singing the name of a good player — who scored against Arsenal at Wembley — should never feel like it is a way of having a go at the team on the pitch, but that’s how Clark made it seem on Saturday.
I don’t think that Clark is a great manager, but he’s the manager we’ve got, and I do think he is probably good enough to keep us up. But he can’t slag players off like that in the press, and he can’t put out a weak team because his feathers are a bit ruffled. We need Zigic, just as we need all the the players in our squad.
Clark got it wrong when he slagged off Zigic because be weakened Blues, not made us stronger.
Times are turbulent at the moment, but we have a good enough squad to keep us up, and regardless of whether fans think Clark is a prat or the hero cup-final goal-scorer Zigic got a bit lucky when he signed his contract, we need to support the team to ensure we have the best chance of staying up and doing better next season.
Shengin, All Clark did was criticize a player, nothing wrong with that and not the first time its ever happened in football. Zigic feels in a win win situation as he cant be sacked, cant be sold (nobody wants him) and gets a huge wedge. This leaves Clark in a situation where he has to talk to him. he did that 3 times apparently so he did the only thing he had the power to do. He dropped him and stated why. If he didnt state why you would be saying why did he leave him out so he had to go public. Now at the end of the day its worked, Zigic trained hard, his been given a full game and still played shit. Your all making far more of this than needed but its become a stick to hit Clark with cuz you hate him. I dont think many of you have thought what you would do in the same situation. What makes me laugh is some believe Zigic is worth the effort and worthy of support, i dont see it.I dont care if Zigic hates Clark or even if his sleeping with ziggys wife. What mattered was that Zigic is taking a huge wedge of your money (the fans) and not training and giving you the finger. All this for a 12 goals a season man. Its got really silly now. But there again some was saying King was crap earlier in the season. So whatever you say but as far as im concerned, some are just making it an issue when its not half as much an issue as you want to believe. Never understood why we signed him in the first place took him 2 seasons before he had any idea how to play and his never really set us on fire either. Tired of hearing about his league cup goal and 4 against Leeds. most times ive seen him play i simply wondered why his loved sop much. His kinda taking the pee a bit if you ask me but hey what do i know. But if you hate Clark, then of course your gonna use it to beat him with. Dunno what the fuss is about. His back in the team, played crap again and well never mind.
Having said that Shengin, your post makes a lot of sense.
On saturday I witnessed fans scuffling and screaming at each other. When at 3-0 a section called for Nicola zigic. I can only imagine that the fans who booed were not supporting Clark , but supporting the club , I am not a Clark fan but we have him , I’m not sure what goes on within wasthills ( albeit someone knows someone who knows someone and eh presto rumours start ) . One things for sure were all in it together. Let’s have the inquest in may