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Accounts Analysis
Birmingham International Holdings released their end of year accounts for the financial year ending June 2013 yesterday to the stock exchange.
Having had time to read through them and digest them, I can tell you what I think. Please note that I’m in no way an accountant and I am working on what I know and what I’ve been told – I must stress that you should read them for yourself and come to your own conclusions.
The Bottom Line
Birmingham International Holdings made a loss over the period July 1 2012 – June 30 2013 of HK$125,532,000 (£9.98mil) before taxation. This is on a turnover of HK$294,497,000 (£23.342mil), a drop of 40% on the last year.
The group’s entire turnover was generated by the football club and the drop in turnover is due to declines in not just match revenue but television income and commercial income. Television income dropped by nearly HK$80mil, commercial income by HK$53mil and match receipts by HK$63mil.
So Where’s The Money Gone?
Chiefly, the money has gone on wage costs. Staff costs not including that of directors and chief executive’s emoluments is at HK$248,500,000 with a further HK$29,845,000 being paid out into retirement plans. Effectively, for every £1 the holding company brings in 84 pence is being spent on staff costs – ie player wages. Despite having a much lower wage bill than last season the costs were still astronomical and that will go some way to show why the wage bill has had to be slashed further this year.
Interest on non-bank borrowings repayable within the next five years has climbed by HK$5million (£400k) and total amounts of borrowings has climbed by HK$73million (nearly six million pounds) – fully one-quarter of the turnover – and it is noted that total liabilities exceed total assets by 20%.
What did the auditors say?
The auditors have qualified the accounts with a disclaimer of opinion. They have done this for a number of reasons; firstly as there is a fee due from Xtep which would materially affect the accounts/cashflow and which they cannot determine the value of. Secondly, there is a debt owed to Vico Hui which they cannot find paperwork for and which would affect the accounts/cashflow.
Thirdly, and most crucially they cannot say the company is a going concern – they acknowledge that there are plans in place for future funding but they note that there is no backup if those plans do not fall into place; in essence everything has to go through with the shareholders and the regulatory bodies or the company will not be able to continue.
This is bad isn’t it?
The bald fact is that it is. To have a third set of accounts on the spin late and qualified with a disclaimer of opinion means that the hopes of the HKSE allowing the relisting of BIHL will be dealt a heavy blow – and it’s my opinion that they are going to struggle to sort the placing shares and in turn the debt mentioned in the announcement detailing the placing shares/convertible bonds/deed of novation will struggle to be paid.
The accounts say that there are no plans to dispose of BCFC in its entirety – but that doesn’t mean that they won’t sell a chunk and it’s my understanding that is what they are trying to do with rumoured interest from the mainland. If they could raise HK$100million from selling a quarter of the club (as they plan to), BIH would be in a much more secure position on a liquidity basis and they could probably move their own plans forward – however the introduction of a minor shareholder in the club would complicate any efforts to buy the club in full by someone like Gianni Paladini.
So what now?
It’s my opinion a lot now hinges on the court case. Should Carson be found guilty the Football League will have to step in to some degree and I think if they are pushed they could potentially force Carson completely out. However, I wouldn’t like to say that will mean BIH will be forced to sell the club because I don’t think it would necessarily be that easy – although it’s clear that something has to happen because BIH for all intents and purposes seems to be insolvent. The court case resumes on December 12 for final submissions with a verdict expected in January/February.
I will repeat I don’t think a boycott will achieve anything – those accounts show that match receipts only make up around a sixth of full income and with the club having received the bulk of this year’s match receipts already in season ticket sales I don’t think that not going to the games will achieve anything other than division and low morale because it will not achieve a significant dent into future income.
All we can do is to continue supporting the team and hoping for light at the end of the tunnel; if the HKSE approve the share placing, the convertible bond issue and the debt novation then those accounts are not so bad. Right now the fate of the club is held in the twin hands of the HK judiciary and the stock exchange.
Tags: Accounts, BIH, Carson Yeung, HKSE
123 Responses to “Accounts Analysis”
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Oh well onwards and downwards. Looks to me that there will be more player sales in the January window, if BIH continue with their current strategy. Thanks for the update.
Last but one line – should that be “those accounts are NOT so bad”?
Yup. Amended
“The group’s entire turnover was generated by the football club”. That says it all in a nutshell.
Almajir if cy is foun guilty and appealed would it In anyway restrict what action the football league can take and where do bihl stand with the stock exchange if a guilty verdict is bought in
Once he is convicted in a competent court they can act, regardless of appeal.
Would this be new territory for the FL or is there a precedent?
New territory I think.
Flavio Briatore would have been precedent when he was suspended by the FIA but he resigned two weeks prior meaning the league didn’t have to push it.
Maybe the Owen Oysten at Blackpool? That’s the only one I can think of. He passed it down to his son Karl .
Precedent set?
Have BIHL at any point indicated a date they have set or targetted for Relisting ?
Nope.
Looks like we’re close to the big A; another 12 months max until the cash completely vanishes.
Fingers crossed for some favourable news in the short term re Stock Exchange and Carson’s verdict, but as you state Dan, the chances of Carson being found not guilty are very slim.
Championship survival is the best we can hope for on the pitch and a few more stay away fans could do with turning up; I appreciate those that don’t want to line PP/CY’s pockets, but the more vocal the home support, the more chance we have picking up some much needed points.
KRO
James, why would U-A chuck money at BIH and go to the trouble of the arrangements for convertible bonds to let it to down the pan …
… or will they pick up the pieces from the Administrator?
Almajir do you know why cy is so determined to keep the club and in laymans terms what his plans
imo he wants a good majority of his and his investors money back as he can’t lose face.
He seems obsessed with being involved in English football and thinks / hopes to get back in the prem by some distant miracle to recoup his money.
As stated in his trial he received money from ify sources he may need to get that money back or face the consequences and the only way is via the prem.
I fear he will be here for years to come, as i don’t see us getting promotion for at least two or three years (with loads of luck) as no one will pay £40 million for something worth £10 to £15 million.
A boycott, and it only has to be for a few games, will achieve a lot. It will bring media attention and force a sale whilst there is still something reasonable to buy. Staying with this owner is not a viable option. His lack of financial knowledge and his tendency to take very high risks are the main problems.
No communication with the fans and no ability to run a football club. So it’s highly unlikely any businessman, knowing the circumstances, would want to invest in the club and work alongside CY and Pannu. They have to go now or the club will rapidly decline further with relegation and administration just around the corner.
How will media attention force sale? I’m sure investors in China are not going to be swayed by a few thousand people (who have already paid via season tickets) staying away. Only losers are the fans & players.
George
The Media know. I’ve been interviewed by TWO HK newspapers now, one interview which has appeared in the last fortnight. It doesn’t make one iota of difference.
The only way to make him sell at this moment in time is to show him the cash. Do you have £32million lying around?
I’m not sure it is a matter of him not wanting to sell though. He has issued mandates to sell the club to third parties and is attempting to novate the debt owed to him by the club to BIH. Not the actions of a man who is determined to keep the club no matter what. However, the problem is that he can only sell the club in a certain way if he is to achieve his key aim of re-listing BIHL, and that is to sell BIHL’s shareholding in the club in stages, thus securing some much needed cash flow in the short term and meeting the HKSE’s requirement of being a viable business (because they’d still be the majority shareholder of the club). As Dan points out, all of this ultimately hinges on the HKSE accepting the accounts and plans for re-financing, and agreeing to the re-listing. So for me, Tom Ross and co tweeting that “BIHL have no plans to sell the club” is a little mis-leading when in fact nothing has changed – i.e. they are working to sell the club, probably to investors in China, on a staged-basis in order to facilitate BIHL’s re-listing. If, however, the HKSE reject the re-listing attempt then BIHL (and presumably therefore the club) will probably go into administration.
He won’t sell the club based on these accounts as BIHL had no income from any source but BCFC.
BCFC is BIHL.
Who gives a monkeys about the Hong Kong media they’ve had no influence regarding CY and the share holders,what about the British media tell me when did you last see anything on central news,midlands today or sky sports news about the carson yeung trial are they even aware there is a trial do they even know who he is or where St Andrews is?
Even Coventry City get more press than we do due to the boycott time will tell what affect it will have.
And another thing you say the loss of £5 million from gate receipts doesn’t matter you need to think is those 8-10 thousand fans buy programmes,scarves,shirts and other stuff from the club shop Mabee food if your like me a beer or four you could easily add another 3-4 million revenue which almost wipes out the losses for the year!
Add to that the money they’ll save next season when Zigic and a few others are moved on the club could be making a Seven figure profit and investing in four or five new decent players not freebies from the conference and Scottish leagues!
Monty
If you think the HK media have no influence on CY why the hell would the British media have any influence?
The British media is global you can buy a sun or mirror in any town in any country in the world the same cant be said about Hong Kong papers.CY seems to think he’s some sort of celebrity but does anyone over there actually dive a damn about the case does the average man on the street know who he is I doubt it but due to the lack of interest in the British media this site for most of is our only source of news,like I said at least the boycott at Coventry is getting publicity they get far more news coverage than blues and it’s galvanised the fans we’ve been divided there is no passion no atmosphere no hope like many have said on here before they don’t look forward to going on matchday they feel obligated to go because of the love for the club which I can understand.
But for how much longer can the fans be exploited in this way this has been going on for 2 and a half years and still we are no closer to the end of the road with only more sorrow to come.
We need something to happen or someone to champion our cause to unite us to bring hope at the end of the day we all have the same goal but if we just sit in silence nothing will change it will just get worse!
Nothing is stopping you from leading the campaign Monty.
Unfortunately I’m just an anonymous voice I don’t have a big enough profile or a platform to be heard unlike yourself after all you are often partisan not often sitting on the fence!
Any so called boycott will achieve nothing the team needs are support.
‘So called’ !!
It’s already happening thousands of fans have boycotted this season as they did last season
George are you Villa fan? Boycotting Blues will effect the team and possible future investors in a very negative way. You are better off not buying things when you go to the game and giving the team 100% vocal support as the 11 men we have are not that good and need the 12th man just to even things up. KRO
I am not unduly bothered about what happens in Hong Kong . It has been said on this site that blues will be able to see this season out financially. Once we are free of zigic , lovenkrands, ambrose, Mullins and unfortunately Elliot, Assante and probably Murphy and Robinson then we should be approaching £140k a week better off. With the exception of Murphy who is injured more often than not, Robinson who is a natural leader but getting slower and Elliot who again is not the future what are we getting for our money? If the players in question were all youngsters I could forgive a dip inform but for players with the experience of Ambrose and lovenkrands there is no excuse. I liken them both to wonderbras from the outside they appeared to be the real deal…. Back those who are playing. Give them time. I would love to see the club self fund once the high earners have left and that way the balance of power may shift back to the club and us, money is where the power is and at the moment we are reliant on Hong Kong . If wages go down and gate receipts go up we can be the tail that wags the dog.
Who the hell will we have left if all those players leave. maybe we should sell all the players and play the Academy team.
I do not agree with a boycott . Did thousands of Coventry supporters boycott at Northampton? Has that done as much to see them back in Coventry as the council leader asking the club to go back?
I think we can learn from Coventry’s pain. Don’t sell the ground and Boycotts don’t work .
Disagree, Coventry fans boycott has sent a strong message to their owners.
They are taking 7000 to Milton Keynes yet only get a home average of 2,200
The boycott has forced Sisu owners chief executive Joy Seppala into talks with the Council.
A rhetorical question but how did we get here. You look at a well run (and smaller) community club such as Orient with a local lad who owns the club. They don’t spend more than they can, they own their ground and have incredible comms with their supporters. The CEO, Matt Porter, regularly does frank Q&A with supporters web forums answering the questions they submit and Barry Hearn is equally accessible. All emails from Porter down are always answered and their community programme is excellent. They are a proper beacon to other clubs how to run their finances, communicate and interact with their supporters and run a family orientated community club. And then what do we get…
I’m slowly falling out of love with the Blues. I’ll be at Barnsley on Saturday, Donny at Stans on Tuesday and Bournemouth on the 14th but until this joke of a situation is sorted I’m reluctantly turning up and not enjoying the doom and gloom around the club. The club doesn’t look like it’s going to be (fully) sold anytime soon and I’m running out of patience. I can fully understand why many fans have turned their backs on the club.
Great response. We could perhaps even look closer to home at West Brom, Wolves and Walsall. They all seem to be run quite efficiently. Wolves for example have been relegated but no panic sales or major changes afoot. Simply down to much better management from the top which sadly we have absolutely none of!
Karl, Wolves aren’t well run they just have a rich owner that is bank rolling the wages, the other two clubs i would agree on.
Ali
You do a disservice to the UK staff who in my experience have been brilliant and have done everything they can to try and make things as good as they can. You email someone at the club, you get a response. The club holds fans forums about the day to day running of the club and actively try to engage fans in what they want to do – for example, they asked a few of us to a strategy meeting to talk about ideas to try and improve the atmosphere.
Hi Dan,
That wasn’t the point I was trying to make. I have no beef with the staff at the club who I’m sure, like all of us, work hard for our crust. I was talking about zero lines of communication with the upper echelons of our great club. I was simply drawing comparison between the owner at Orient vs. Carson Yeung and the CEO at Orient vs. Peter Pannu. These guys bust a gut to have clear and open lines of communication whereas our two guys are almost phantoms. To quote David Gold / David Sullivan when referring to early contact with CY et al: “The silence is deafening”
I think, to be fair, it’s the owners Blues fans have turned their backs on.. not the club.Once you fall in love with the Blues, you’re hooked for life. It’s exasperation at the shambles known as BIHL.
Yep, I think that pretty much sums it up.
You say match receipts dropped by hk$63mill which is £5mill which is more than 20% of turnover and half the overall debt,from that i would say non attendances(boycott) is having a bigger impact than you say later on ” I will repeat I don’t think a boycott will achieve anything”
Yes, match attendances dropped by around £5mil – but they don’t make up a large proportion of income as it stands and the club will have already had the vast proportion of money for match receipts this year in season ticket money – thus a boycott now will achieve nothing, because the sum that would change is much more minimal – and the proportion of turnover isn’t that high anyway – did you read what I said?
They dont now because they have dropped by 5mill,and 5mill out of 23mill turnover is approx 21%
What im saying is there already has effectively been a boycott
I dont like the idea of a boycott and administration etc anymore than you but you cant deny that dropping attendancies have had a financial effect and will even more so in future with the loss of parachute money
The sadddest thing is a lot of those people will have got used to not going any more and may be lost forever
I dont see how BIHL can ever pull this round too many people just want them gone and will never give them another penny,if youve lost the fans yo have lost the club and BIHL is nothing without the club
I totally agree Andy, you are spot on, Dan dose say in his report that you should form your own opinion, but so many people on here just don’t have a clue what`s going on and what it all means and they take Dans word as fact (not his fault), so it is good to have people like you to give what I consider a more accurate view and that is only my opinion also. I also think we will have big news sooner than most people seem to think.
Zx
hope your right on the news front, but i can see Yeung here for years to come.
He knows next year the wages will be slashed with five or six top earners gone so saving the club around £8 million which he can either pay off loans, pay off debt from these accounts or invest some of it in two or three cheap buys .
so the pressure for the need to sell is reduced massively
Thanks for another simplified overview to help us understand thing easier, why they make audits and accounts soooo complicated.
Overall we are still in deep mire with a very dim candle almost snuffed out at the end of the tunnel.
I agree that a boycott would be fruitless and only damage the morale of the team and those who work behind the scenes keeping the club functioning. I do feel that we, the supporters, should be able to vent our frustration in some way, and it should be aimed at the shareholders of BIHL, but am at a loss as to how to make that happen.
Hopefully the Football League will step in and force something, though I will not hold my breath. The shareholders accept the proposed changes and HKSE re-list the shares with CY being convicted and thus unable to remain in charge.
KRO+DNM
I tend to agree with Ali. We can alll refer to how we and our families have been Blue through and through for EONs, but when you eat s*** for long enough, you eventually realise its not good for you. My biggest fear is that if this stalemate continues into next summer, the impact on Season Ticket sales will be devastating. You wont need a boycott it will happen by default.
So we think that BIHL wants to sell 25% of its shareholding in BCFC. That probably means cash of something like £5m to £7m, which equates to an average of about £350 each over a fan base of say 15,000 (or an average £500 each over 10,000). The cost might be even less if the financial state of BIHL group gets any worse or if BCFC goes into administration.
In that case, and as I have suggested before in a response to a recent article on this site, why don’t we as fans and the Blues Trust get together as a consortium, form a company, issue shares, and put in a bid to buy a chunk of shares in BCFC. In that way and if successful, we could collectively:
· have more influence in the running of the club.
· probably arrange for one or two of us to have a seat on the Board of BCFC
· help to appoint someone locally to have control over administration of the club instead of the anonymous people in Hong Kong.
Portsmouth and Swansea have shown they can do it. Why cant we?
Before the current owners took control, I along with many other supporters, owned some shares in it but I was forced to relinquish my shareholding on the takeover. I would willingly reinvest if I was allowed to do so and a number of fans on this site have indicated they would do the same.
I would gladly give £1000 to that cause, set it up Pete and let me know where to send the money. The Trust is the main player imho kro4ever
Is any member of the Blues Trust watching this and if so, can we take it any further?
yes they are and we are looking into the logistics…Ive posted an article on a couple of Forums re Supporter Share Ownership
Hi B25dave, For those who cant put that much money into the trust, Can you see if people can drop pennies/loose change into a bottle or bucket in the Royal George or something like that.
KRO
It one thing owning 25% of the club, but its another having any control…
Ask CY , when he owned 30% of BCFC & the Golds & Sully had the rest..he was still completely sidelined
& even if they are not ignored are the same people going to dig into their pockets a second time to raise additional finance for the club ? & even if they did that would another 5, 6. 7 million really make any great difference ?
It really needs to be thought through carefully before well meaning people get separated from their hard earned.
Blueboy, people would not be seperated from their cash, as at first it would be just registering an interest.
The next step would probably for people to put their money into an account (escrow) which would be safe and controlled by an independent body e.g. solicitor firm etc.
Dave, any links? cheers.
Dan. The boycot will make the UK TV and newspaper take notice. A club with no fans is not viable so CY would have to come to his senses. His valuation at £32m is at best a projected value if the share issue is taken up. The club should be valued around the value of the capital reserves and taking out the CY loan that is HK$91m or about £7.5m and that was back in June and things have got worse!
George
I hate to break it to you, UK TV and newspapers know already – AND IT DOESN’T MAKE A BLIND BIT OF DIFFERENCE.
It doesn’t matter what we think the club is worth, Carson owns it, he’s not under pressure financially to sell (it appears), he will demand what he wants for it. Until something changes – for example if he is convicted – nothing we say or do will make a blind bit of difference realistically. If you want to boycott the club, knock yourself out. I consider myself a supporter though and I will not desert the club when it needs me.
Why are you shouting at people who are expressing an opinion?
Because it’s one that’s done to death and no one seems to listen.
I keep hearing people going on about “media exposure” – the media knows. It means nothing.
I read somewhere someone saying about “putting the fear up them” meaning the BIH board – fear of what exactly?
The fact is zxcv, so many people keep making these noises but not one of them does anything about it. Not one, and it maddens me.
Dan my point would be this, If you are not to let things like this get to you then you must accept that whatever you or I say to them they will still be here tomorrow asking you all over again, you have to accept that’s life. But also if it maddens you you should maybe just not reply and don’t show your anger, or you will just end up packing it all in and you should not do that !
well said Daniel absolutely in agreement with you buddy………………………..
Almajir … brilliant piece as ever and without doubt, you are the singular best source of information about our beloved club in these troubled times and I sincerely thank you as I’m sure all true life long fans would.
However …. Although it pains me, I regrettably must disagree with your stance regarding any supporter boycott. Whilst I totally agree with the fact that financially this will not make any significant difference to BIHL and based on your comprehensive scrutiny of these accounts, I personally feel that any boycott should not be about bringing them down anyway.
For me, this is about making a strong statement to ‘our media’. Two or three COMPLETELY empty home games would undoubtedly make some serious noise over here. The likes of BBC, SKY and Central TV coverage could not simply pretend it isn’t happening and although you can argue ‘what exactly will it achieve?’ ….. I think that half the problem with the zero atmosphere and complete apathy is solely down to the fact we as fans are doing nothing at all as we feel there is no one around to vent at (other than BCFC staff who are not in anyway culpable)…. i.e. if no one else seems bothered why should I be bothered. This type of mentality simply encourages fans to do a ‘hear no evil ,see no evil’ and stop attending matches instead. If you don’t see it first hand each week ….. to a degree you can pretend it’s not happening.
Anyway, thanks again Almajir ….. Just my opinion and although I know it would greatly hurt those with blue blood running through their veins ….It is my view that we have to at least make some sort of noise even if it only acts to selfishly help us all feel passionate once more. I just feel we are all currently being bent over and are accepting our punishment with nothing more than a whimper ….surely Bluenoses don’t do whimpering ??
imo it doesn’t even need to be a few matches but just one and when it is on tv.
Only need fans to stay out side the ground for say 30 minutes of 15 minutes, just so the game starts with an empty stadium when it is being shown on sky around the world.
Then after this time period the fans enter the ground and support the team, so this suits all types of fans and is one way we could all agree on a sort of protest that has an impact via live tv but also supports the team for the rest of the game.
if we couldn’t agree on something like this because we are so divided then there’s no hope.
And neither do they care. This statement will hurt many people but to the nationals Blues just aren’t sexy. We’re not a London or NW club, we don’t have a huge history of silveware and also live in the shadow or richer more successful neighbours.
Sorry George but you havent got a clue. Boycotts have never worked and never will
What! If no one had ever stood up for what they believed where would we be? I agree with a boycott, football is now treated as a business, it’s all about money and it’s your right to vote with your feet where you see fit… This makes you no less a fan!!!!!
Wheres your evidence?
I have some… Coventry. They are boycotting and now getting some action.
Apart from Cov, when has it ever been tried?
Almajir,!!. From the reading of the latest accounts, [ and like you, I have no deep understanding ]. BIH,surely as little to no chance of being re-listed by HKsE, — Inwhich case how can it continue to function without BCFC, ?.
CY, is banking on the exchaange obliging him, ?. Without it, — Up the creek without a paddle, !!.
If you look at the table at the moment we are in a perilous position in the Championship. With the state of the club as you describe there will inevitably be a fire sale in January what hope for survival. Unfortunately faith , commitment and confidence isn’t enough. Never more than now do we need to keep right on and hope there is a light at the end of the road.
We definitely need as Tony Butler used to say “get the prayer mats out” .
A fire sale can not happen as we do not have the goods to sell! Any sale of players in January will be determined by potential purchasers and NOT by any one at the Club. Possible couple of hundred grand offers for a couple of players, but no more. So it aint gonna happen, not cos the club wouldnt like to do it, but because they dont have the assets to strip. Bare bones and all that. KRO.
Totally agree. Our, supposed, highest valued player is Chris Burke. On this season’s form, I doubt he’d be worth a quarter of a mill. We probably wouldn’t get more than a million for the rest of the squad put together. So I really can’t see a fire sale happening in January. You have to have saleable goods to have a sale, surely. Unless they start transferring the staff. ;-)
I for one am glad the club have no one left to sell!!! There all gone Carson and your still up the creek! I’m not Lilly livered like some relegation and administration is better than this . Can’t everyone see we are not a functioning club anymore anyway???
you’re right, we’re not functioning – that’s why the bills are paid on time and we don’t own anyone any money at the moment…
I can’t wait to sell Zigic and get rid of his £50k a week wage. Think of what we can do with all of that cash and the freedom of not having to pay £60k a week to a useless lump. I think it’s madness that he takes £70k a week tax free and doesn’t score a hat trick each week. We should stop his £80k a week until he’s agreed to move to another club. He’s killing the club. Intentionally.
That reminds me of the old joke:
Son: “Dad, can I borrow 10 pounds please?”
Father: “Five pounds? What do you want a pound for son?”
its an even older gag than that…
Dad can i have two shillings
a shilling what do you want sixpence for
its so old a gag i forgot it and messed it up…!!!!!!!!!
Your scapegoat Ziggy will leave on a free and PP will pick up the allegedly £50 grand p.w the club are paying him.
In fairness to Ziggy, he only signed the contract, would you ask your company to pay you less. He was never going to score a hat trick every week, anymore than Trevor Francis did, I agree it could put himself a bit more but again, he is never going to be a Bob Latchford or Tony Hately.
I do believe he asked his agent to negotiate a wage reduction but his agent refused, how true that is maybe someone knows the full story.
KRO+DNM
the only ones who keep saying ” boycott, boycott” are the ones that dont go and dont care really
about the club anyway so give it a rest and button it, your getting on my nerves as well as all
other true supporters as well who pay there money and whatch there team and do there best
to get us out off this hole were in, if you call yourself a blues fan start acting and supporting like
one and stop making excuses.KRO.
And why don’t these people still go to the match Dave……..derrrrrrrrrrrr! I had a season ticket for 23 years mate so don’t bleat to me about not being a proper fan. I could have brought my house twice over with the amount of money I have spent following our boys all over the country. Now if I’ve had enough (as thousands more have) of these owners and refuse to keep funding them, that does not make me any less of a fan. For those like yourself who believe you are making a difference, fill your boots ….your prerogative.
well said Drew!!! dave mann seems to think he owns the manual on how to be a fan!
Well dave mann, how about we dawdle up to the match every week mumbling and groaning without protest or evidence of verment disgust at the current regime, give some money to Carson Yeung as you enter the turnstiles and vent our apathy at the team on the pitch. OH HOLD ON! YOU DO THAT ALREADY!!!
Or, you could decide that you have a vision for the club and can make a difference by cutting some of the cash flow to BIHL.
Dan, this is where I disagree with you (re. lower match receiptswont effect them that much). They are in such a bad state that even a relatively small further reduction in income would hurt them, maybe kill them off altogether.
A BOYCOTT IS THE ONLY WAY……. if your a true fan!
Alex
Don’t tell me I’m not a true fan if I don’t boycott. Thanks
sorry Dan, that was a throw away comment in response to those that accuse the stay awayers of not being fan.
didnt mean it literally, so sorry if it caused offence :)
Tough, it’s called freedom
Very fair comment about the staff ‘in the trenches’ at Birmingham City F.C
Absolutely amazing and must be worried for the security of their ‘positions’.
We couldn’t want for better !
in nutshell support your team, we have a magnificent fans base, support the blues home and away………..put down your moaning and groaning…..these young players deserve our respect …….
totally agree dave…….. Those blues staff deserve our respect……….you are either in or out the ride with blues has always been tough, there will be always light at the end of the tunnel……………..kro
If you want to boycott then join the thousands that have already boycotted since Wembley 2011.
Please leave the rest of us who want to support the team alone. We’re not interested and we wont be swayed.
boycotting games was always going to be futile………………….
dave,
we r all entitled to our opinion
I have had a season ticket for 10 years up until this year – as I cant bear to give them any more money.
saying that I have been to 5 home games this yr quite enjoyed the blackpool game to be fair.
But I for 1 will now only go when it suits me now until there are new owners. I think there are prob many fans like me, I didn’t buy a season ticket before to save money I did it for the club, I know that I would miss a few games a season and it would prob be cheaper to pay as u go but I still bought it.
now I think sod it, im just doing it for me, my fear is how this apathy will spread and even with new owners we may never get all the fans back / lose those in the medium term.
Darren your not alone mate, in fact your in the majority imo and no matter what anyone says on any of these sites that will not change peoples minds. Pay as you go is the right choice for me until we get new owners. and I have paid for three s/t for about 8/9 years now, but no more till cy/pp are out the door.
There is way too many complexities and intricacies involved for this BIHL situation to end happily. It involves “ifs” here and “buts” there, and there is divergent agendas and interests at stake which might eventually bring the whole house down. Some are after BIHL and don’t really care about BCFC. Others want to get a stake in the club but don’t give a shit about the HK company. In order for BIHL to be listed on the exchange and try and raise finances there are certain objectives that need to met. CY wants BIHL to live and move into other ventures and business areas and somehow make itself profitable and respected. He also has the verdict from his trial to consider which would seriously inhibit his ability to do anything other than fill time and serve a stretch. Others within BIHL don’t give a rat’s arse for either that company or BCFC, and are probably scheming to position themselves once the fallout from various obstacles takes place in the next few months.
We as Blues fans are at the base of the pyramid whether we agree with it or not. The only way we can mix-it up a bit is, if we manage to arrange ourselves cohesively and get a fund together. Money and its value speak louder and stronger than any protest, march, publicity etc.
If we accept that CY in all his wisdom wants £32m for the club. Ok. That equates to £1.6m for a 5% share. Is that really beyond us?
There has been a 40% drop in income from the last financial year, how does any individual or company cope and contend with that? Of course some have reserves and contingencies and other sources of revenue. This company doesn’t, it relies on BCFC. In all likelihood there will be another massive drop in the current year. Even with getting rid of some of the biggest earners at the end of the current campaign will have minimal impact.
In Almajir’s final paragraph, he states that he hopes for light at the end of the tunnel. I for one am concerned that the arseholes driving our carriage have abandoned us midway and legged it. And we are left in there, in the dark, fighting it out amongst ourselves to decide on the best course of action. When we were listed on the Alternative Investment Market under the Golds and Sullivan, thousands of Blues fans bought shares for sentimental/loyal/hopeful reasons. If we somehow managed to get the Trust/OP (because of their skills knowledge and reach) and suchlike to co-ordinate a positive plan of action to try and get something going, we may, just may get some control back over from HK and back to the UK.
It all involves huge amounts of time, frustration, dead-ends and small amounts of exhilaration and satisfaction if it goes right. But nobody ever made a success of anything by simply leaving it in the laps of the gods.
Here Here. (see my reply above and that of Glyn ). Is any member of the Blues Trust watching this thread and if so, where do we start? We really need to get something moving soon so that we have funds ready for any eventuality. The problem is that the Trust at the moment only has a limited membership. It only costs a fiver to join.
ive replied to your original post…
You’re right BP.
Unfortunately, the Trust are hamstrung for various reasons but are still giving it a go and still have managed to get some decent results.
In my opinion rather than going for 10,000 noses giving £100 each, lets try and switch to 100 giving £10k each. I accept and understand that there will not be many folk around with that amount of money to spare, but it makes it easier to co-ordinate and if groups wish to club together based on location, pub, family and friends or whatever, we’d stand a much better chance. Let’s get some of the local linked organisations involved who have a stake in Blues doing well and prospering.
I see that ‘B25Dave’ has already got the ball rolling and that is very commendable. At the very least let’s try and attempt to see who is up for it.
I will also pledge a five-figure sum to any fund that is willing to establish supporter ownership and involvement.
have a quick read of the document ive posted elsewhere unless Daniel wants to place it on here..its worth reading.Its important to note that with OP’s recent poll less than 10% saw Supporter Involvement as key which was disappointing but understandable.
Done it B25D.
Yep, the poll was disappointing but it does prove that 10% realise that in order to get the right decisions and choices made, you have to have influence and a voice. But if something tangible can be constructed and evidenced, the other 90% will surely recognise this and may appreciate the effort being made for each and every one of us.
The link you have kindly provided with Pompey as the case study, doesn’t really look as if anything is not insurmountable. We have just got to get the dedication, numbers and priorities right. The rest will follow?
Thanks Dave for that information. Can you give us the link to read your document.
Also re the comment above, I personally don’t think that a shareholding of 5% in BCFC is enough, but I suppose it’s a start. We should be aiming for more than that. If the Club does go into liquidation then we would need ready funds and I don’t think £1m or even £1.6m will be sufficient for a fans-based involvement.
we will never know unless we try…
Just as a matter of interest how do you buy 5% of an unlisted HKSE company ?
i wont post the link on here unless Dan says its ok to do so or he can,ive put in Official Forum though.There are lots of models the Pompey and Swansea ones are a mix of Trust and Private Equity owned.
If we could start the fund now it would give people the chance to save via a direct debit etc to build up thier personal fund to help buy the club or shares in the club.
It would also be a massive step forward if we could link it to a prospective buyer who maybe would join the fans in a bid, but if would need trust and a formal deal so as not to risk the fans money with more gambling owners.
Not the place to discuss Trust issues but you can only pay through Paypal, that is stopping a lot of people.
KRO+DNM
Not true
Apologies, it has been some time since I checked out the web page re joining, Thanks as originally it did say you need a paypal account to join on-line.
KRO+DNM
your right guys, it is about opnion but its also about support when the team needs it most not
when were back in the premier league at home to man utd because the arm chair supporters
will all want tickets then wont they, by staying away your just missing out as far as ime
concerned, thats your loss and the support off our players loss, if we go down this season
and yeung and pannu do one will 20,000 + turn up next season in league one because weve
got new owners…..i beg to differ.. but lets wait and see yeah!!!! .KRO.
I don’t quite understand this talk of a boycott. Our current average gate is on a par with other lower Championship clubs, Sheff W being the exception.
What else do people expect?
If we were to stay in this division next season, with new owners and a similar league position I would expect similar sized attendances.
Of course “armchair” suporters would come flocking back for Man U at home in the Premiership. That’s how football works and always will.
Just out of interest OP if you didn’t include Zigic’s wages what would be the percentage, 84% down to….?
Let’s do the math.
248,500,000 HKD is approx £20mil Turnover is approx £23mil
Ziggy is allegedly on 60k per week, £3million per year.
17mil (20-3) divided by 23 mil x 100 = about 74%. That much of a difference.
Matt, would you like Dan to nip round and wipe your bleeding Bum for you.? lol
Being a Blue Nose is like being in Josef Fritzel’s basement !!!!!
Every time you see a chink of light you get f*cked !!!!!!
Calculator not coming until Christmas, but I’ll take the offer up and free bum wipe. Triple quilted only dan;…
Creek minus a paddle!
I do agree something needs to be done just in the hope that it may effect things, however I don’t think boycotting the club is the answer. All that will achieve is a column article written by Robbie Savage on how were a shambles of a club, and the media would hardly bat an eyelid.
How about the complete opposite and try and be an advert for a prospective owner, a save our club banner and sell out a game. I feel this would get in the media more than any boycott would and could also do us some favours towards the club.
It appears to me that as supporters we need to show carson yeung we care more about tbe club than him or his henchman pp so lets keep supporting the club and wouldnt it be better to protest inside the groundbefore and after the game because it will show we do care and in between we support the team there has been very little protest apart from one song
It is St Andrews day tomorrow. Please fly the flag.
St Andrews day is on Saturday
Spot on Peter, the only way forward is for all fans to get organised, but th question is who is willing to lead us. As with many posters I’m willing to put limited money into a fund
The next game is home to Doncaster not expensive, maybe a chance to show our support for the club not CY but the club
It’s a fantastic game and first off the players gave it to us as fans to watch , free by the way ! I just wish us as fans , players and the tv people could reach a common aim again and give football in general back to the masses that care about it , kro .
Never gonna happen mate. There’s far too much greed in football for that… and it starts at the top. But I agree with your sentiment.
The fact that there is “unclear data” and “fuzzy” deals (my words) showing no paperwork is incredulous at any level of business. The whole thing is, in my personal view, an exercise in deception. I’m using that word not in the criminal sense (others may do that further on down the road), but in the sense of deceiving the markets and us, the fans. The Yeung erais drawing to acloseand will be remembered infamously as were the Kumars.
comment removed – I understand your sentiments but legallly I can’t publish this.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/mps-demand-new-law-fix-6353434
Too little, too late?