Often Partisan

Bids for Butland

News broke on Twitter last night that Blues have rejected a bid of £6mil for Jack Butland, from Southampton. Bearing in mind Peter Pannu said only on Tuesday that it would take an eye-popping offer for Jack Butland to be sold the question is how much more will Blues hold out for – or even can hold out for?

Predictably, the idea of another player sale has been met in some quarters with derision. It’s understandable; people don’t want to see a player with the potential of Butland sold on without getting some benefit of his talent in a Blues shirt. Furthermore there are the fears of what will happen to any money raised from his sale – and what Blues will do for a goalkeeper in the new season with Ben Foster likely to move on to pastures new and Colin Doyle being out of contract.

The first thing to bear in mind is that if Blues ended up with one or no senior keeper then this would be one of the sorts of instances where the league would issue approval to bring in a replacement despite the embargo; the club cannot compete without a keeper and the league would see it as prudent for Blues to bring in a replacement.

Another thing I’d take into account is how much money people would expect for Butland. Despite him being in the England squad at Euro 2012, and probably the starting keeper for Team GB in the Olympics, Butland has never played at a level higher than League Two. Potential is one thing – but it’s a risk spending a large amount of money on a player with so little experience.

A comparable player for me would be Thibaut Courtois, who signed for Chelsea in the last summer window from Belgian side Racing Genk. Courtois was 18 when Chelsea plucked him from the Jupiler League, and had played 41 times in that league (the Belgian top tier) for Genk – and they paid £6million for him. Therefore to refuse a similar fee for a similar aged player with less experience – well, it’s a big call.

Of course there is the structure of the fee; £6mil down is a hugely different fee from £2mil with add-ons rising to £6mil. I’d want to know that Blues had had the wherewithal to turn down a huge flat cash fee before I praised Pannu for being so ballsy with it. Whatever happens, it’s a big decision for Jack too; would he want to go and maybe sit on a bench for  a Premier League team or would he prefer to stay at Blues and maybe be the number 1 for a season. Of course, there would be the question whether he would get the chance to be able to turn it down.

I’ll be honest enough to say I’ve seen Jack play in the flesh twice; against Sutton Coldfield Town and Leamington FC – both in the Birmingham Senior Cup. He didn’t impress me particularly on either occasion and I’ll admit to wondering if he really is as good as some are saying. There were rave reviews from Cheltenham Town – however, he did have a mini-slump where he wasn’t so good and I’d dread to think how a couple of duff games at the top level at a young age would affect his career.

Given the choice, if Blues could get say £7-8mil cash down, and I was sure that money would go to a) assure we could keep other players and b) maybe help bring some players in, then I’d take it. I appreciate that it wouldn’t be great selling off one of our crown jewels like that – but I’m pragmatic enough to realise that his value may well go down as well as up and Blues could secure their immediate future with a big sale. The key for me though is how much cash Blues receive in a lump sum, and what happens to that cash. Anything other than reinvestment in the squad would make it a no.


72 Responses to “Bids for Butland”

  • KiwiJohn says:

    Agree with you Al. Even 6Million is a substantial amount for a rookie however good his potential. What if he gets injured? An assest is only as good as someone is willing to pay. I would like to see Colin Doyle given the chance to shine at last. He proved very reliable last season. KRO

  • Conbcfc says:

    I was at the leamington game and agree he looked off that night (struggled with crosses) but he has been talked about for so long by so many different people he has the potential. Also I would class the U21’s above league 2? Had we not been pushing for promotion and scrapping for playoffs I’m sure Chris hughton would have thrown Jack in, but couldn’t risk it in the pressure situation. However, with the likelihood of Foster leaving I he is sure to be first choice next season.

  • Paul says:

    Personally I would take the 6 mill and run, if he has a stinker at the Olympics u can half that, its too much to chance. It could secure .2/3 decent outfield players, including wages, and secure the running of the club, promote Doyle to number 1, with a bit of coaching from Watson, and find a new starlet to promote to No2 , Do it Peter, Doyle is ok, so it gives us time to find a new kid, its more outfield players we need!!

    • Julian Glass says:

      We saw from Joe Hart how many points a really good goalkeeper can save you: if we can go up this season we could have twenty years of him earning marginal points. At c.£1m per league position until 2030 are we really going to cash in to buy a few players with a two or three years shelf life? Ridiculous.

    • chris says:

      it’s no good if it’s only £2 million up front and the rest are add-ons or they want to pay over 4 years.

  • Julian Glass says:

    Is it a coincidence that LC has talked with Doyle? Perhaps Euro2012 has whetted Butland’s appetite for the Prem and Doyle has been told he will be No.1. G-d help us!

  • Ted says:

    Clark will get exactly zero monies from Jack’s sale. Unfortunate, but true. Let’s not kid ourselves.

    • Julian Glass says:

      Pretty much true

    • neal says:

      You have to fear that this is true. Would be worth selling for £6 million or more given the current state of the playing squad if it were to be fully reinvested in new players but I can see the pigs flying over me now!

      • NooBloo says:

        This sort of money is only being quoted because he was included in the England squad. Essentially he had played a dozen or so games for Cheltenham and thats it. joe hart the current England number 1 wouldnt cost much more than than that. Roy hdgson is probably on a cut of any transfer fee and you will probably find him in the same dock as harry redknap stood in last year, so take the money and run

  • Paul says:

    All well and good, but Butland is untested at the highest level and could turn out to be over hyped and very average, Doyle could, with a little more coaching and 1st team action improve on some good performances last season and whatever happens to the money, its still badly needed.
    I,m no different to u guys, I want the best in every position but we have to be frugal too.

  • Pete says:

    Well if we turned it down- it shows intent.If we have turned it down- end of story.I suspect he will be given number 1 slot next season. You dont turn down that money with the intention of him being on the bench or on loan. The issue being who will we get to be number 2 keeper?

  • bcfcdave11 says:

    of course theres always myhill in some sort of cas/player swap for foster and 6 mil plus for butland that could see us safe money wise for the season looks like good business to me for an untried rookie that might not live up to expectations.

  • chris says:

    Clark won’t see a penny of it anyway and we’d have to buy another keeper unless there’s a good goalie on a free available.
    i don’t want to see us selling anyone if it’s to pay Zigic’s wages or Foster’s wages if he doesn’t go.
    we need to get rid of these two first before we sell our future, it’s bad enought to lose Mutch over these two.
    These two players know the club is struggling financially and could have deferred some of their wages to help the club, but they don’t care.

    • nicky wicky says:

      duh haven’t you heard the club is not heading for admin struggling financially.in fact they are going to post a substantial profit for this last year!

      • chris says:

        never mentioned admin and i said months ago we wouldn’t go into admin as we are meeting all our bills and debts payments.
        but don’t kid yourself that we are not still struggling. we owe Carson & BIHL £20 million, we sold Mutch for £3 mill and Hughton & his team for around the same but very little of that will see it’s way to transfer fees, though it may help with loan fees/ wages.
        Those two big wage earners ARE a massive drain on the club.
        Zigic’s wages alone equates to 2000 to 3000 fans admittance monies

        • terryms says:

          Totally agree Chris. Ziggy is eating up the wages of 3 – 4 decent recruits. Only hope of moving him is to share his cost on loan and that would deliver a saving to pay for 2 players and in reality net 1 more. Ziggy loves it here wouldn’t we all on a cast iron non relegation clawback contract at 50K pw part time too !! On Foster he has the wish to stay local so the Baggies have us over a barrel cos they too know we want rid of his wages. So I doubt we will get easy or attractive solutions on either front.

        • nicky wicky says:

          PP said in his statement that all the loan to carson yeung was still outstanding.payments have been frozen while he is on trial. If zigic is still on such money which i doubt as PP doesn’t seem in any hurry to get rid of him then i agree, but certainly you should get rid of the high wage earners before selling your young stars!

  • andy says:

    12 million was put on Redmond last season, remember? I would imagine thats the eye popping figure for Butland and Davies too. It would be absolutely ridiculous to sell both Foster and Butland anyway, one of them has to stay,

  • BowThai says:

    I really dont understand why people keep mentioning Zigic moving on..He came here for the money and will stay here for the money.NO ONE will pay his current wages and therefore will not offer money upfront for him.Blues will never break his contract.I am certain HIS game plan is-see out his contract and get a free whilst all monies go to him in new wages/contart.Lads hes going nowhere.As for Butland,i doubt the 6M is anything like money upfront.So lets keep him and see where we get with him in a Blues shirt for however long.KRO

    • nicky wicky says:

      Zigic actually enjoys playing for Blues. he has said that if someone comes in with an offer that is right for him and the club then he will leave. I doubt he’s getting all that money now anyway else PP would have got rid of him ages ago!

    • nicky wicky says:

      Sunderland paid Gardners wages and he was on £65kpw so thats nonsense. either ziggy isn’t on those wages anymore or noones made an offer that the club finds satisfactory!

  • Masaccio says:

    Put Doyle in a Butland shirt and see if the southampton management notice the difference

  • Macc lad says:

    No point in selling both Foster and Butland. Given that Butland will probably be on next to nothing, then Foster is the obvious one to sell.
    Who cares if Butland’s value goes down. By the time we find that out, we could be in a much better situation financially.

  • Leigh says:

    I trust JB does not read this article, I cannot see it would do anything for his confidence. I almost begin to think it is intended to encourage him to leave.

  • Blueboy 88 says:

    Its Official The Worlds gone mad…

    WBA will end up up with an England International Goalkeeper formely of Man Utd with 150+ senior games to his name , for approx 4 million..

    & Southampton offer us 6 Million for a lad who has never played a senior game for the Club,
    & looked a bit iffy on his crosses against the mighty Leamington Brakes….

    Pick the bones out of that….!!

    • terryms says:

      Yeah on that basis flog him ! Then its all about the deal structure previous amount declared was £3m ish from Soton so I suspect they have added a further 3 in add ons like appearances and caps which could be a long way off !

  • andy says:

    I just hope supporters dont expect Butland to be Buffon and Hart rolled into one. He obviously is a very good keeper but at 19, he must still be learning his trade. Its not about take a big offer for an untried youngster and run in case he fails to live up to expectations, the kid is the future of Birmingham City and along with Redmond, these players should be kept unless, as Pannu stated, a real eye popping bid was made. And im talking double figures!!

  • mitchell says:

    “& looked a bit iffy on his crosses against the mighty Leamington Brakes”

    Words fail me.

    Let’s just sell them all as they clearly aren’t that good; whilst we’re at it let’s sell Resmond as well because he had a bad game last November.

    The only way we can compete this year is by keeping our best players; lose them and not even Mourinho could get us up.


    • Blueboy 88 says:

      That’s the point how do you know he is one of our best players….?

      Theres a lot of hype around this young man…& as yet no substance ..
      6 million (depending on the fees structure) is a lot of money when you compare it with Fosters fee …

  • Carl says:

    Macc lad is spot on.

    The odds that Foster would want to stay are very slim – and he earns a lot more.

    Butland will be on low wages and, if he turns out no good long term (all relative, of course, as he is decent) then the club may be in a better financial state by then.

    Maybe some truth that Mutch’s head had been turned by Cardiff OR, simply, the 3mil sale has sorted short term cash-flow?

    Either way, good that the club is showing that we’re not there for the cheap pickings

  • skareggae72 says:

    There seems to be a lack of english GKs so Butlands profile has been enhanced,which has probably inflated his transfer fee to the £6m+ mark,although we need to be careful we dont sell of a potential star.

    So far a handful of games at Cheltenham does not tell us a lot,although it has to be remembered Joe Hart started at Shrewsbury,and was dropped for a year after conceding 3 v Morcambe.
    Is Butland the next Hart?

  • Netnous says:

    The owners obviously realise that the only way they can make a profit and, more importantly, save face, is to win promotion.

    That means keeping and acquiring great players and regenerating maximum support.

    Good luck JB. This is your time.


  • Oby says:

    I saw him play for Cheltenham where he had a mare in one game, and wasn’t vey good for a few games after that, however, I except he must have had a few outstanding games for them to rate him so highly, however, £6m, Hmm,maybe try and squeeze another million out of them and for me that would be a done deal to secure the future of our club


  • andy says:

    Reports are now surfacing which place doubt on the statement we have rejected the bid and that JB is desperate for the move to happen
    I think he will be sold but maybe we will hold out until after the ST holder renewal deadline
    If the money is up front and would be used to strengthen the team or stave off further sales then i would take the money,however i dont see either of those happening
    I believe if we do not keep our best/young players then Lee Clark will resign before the season even starts

  • andy says:

    Sound familiar?
    Bid comes in,player is desperate to go,after the sale the player states,it all happened so quick

  • Peckham_Blue says:

    Players are as cut-throat as their agents will make them. If Butland can’t see the benefit of staying at the Blues then he needs to go asap. The only benefit to him for staying that I see is the presence of Mr Watson which looks in doubt now. Other than loyalty to the Blues/fans then what’s to keep him? It’s rare for anyone to stay with one employer for long – football’s no different.

    I’d like to keep him as he’s no doubt as valuable (potentially) as Redmond or Mutch but much less likely to get injured, hence he’ll hold his value better. If we get £5-6m upfront for him then I’ll be happy. Will be a shame if he goes to Southampton then gets sent out on loan again but that’ll be their problem.

  • Ben says:

    We are better off selling Foster for £4mil; as his wages cost us around £1.3million a year more – excluding bonuses.
    Hence the deal is then worth around £5.8mil + if he plays another 12 games for Birmingham in the league we owe man utd the £1mil bonuses on the deal we agreed with them.

    So do we sell a star youth player for a few mil rising to £6m
    So sell an aging (albeit still in prime condition for a few more years – if not more) for what works out to more in terms of the clubs saving as well.

  • mitchell says:

    If he goes for 6,8,10 – how much will Clarke see of it?

  • Euston 9.18 says:

    Are Southampton seriously going to bid 6million for a “rookie” goalkeeper who hasn’t even played for the selling club ??

    Remember CRAIG GORDON who went from Hearts to Sunderland (think it’s still a record fee for a goalie in this country) 7 million up front + 2 million based on appearances.
    He had already played 139 first team appearances for Hearts & had 30 Scottish caps.

    This May he was released from Sunderland.

  • Wingman Blue says:

    Let’s face it. We are poorer now in terms of team experience than we were 12 months ago. We’ve just lost a manager with top-flight experience, and are having to make do with one that may or may not have the potential to keep us in the top flight of the Championship. We have just sold one of our promising youngsters, and the hawks are circling over two others. We cannot afford to keep Zigic on his prem wages, we certainly couldn’t afford Foster as well. Doyle had a very patchy season, last, and he’s not sudddenly going to improve.
    The real question, is whether Butland is overvalued, and we maybe could sell him at that value.
    Well, good keepers are hardly ten-a-penny, and if Dave Watson continues at Blues, Butland can only improve. As such he would keep his value whilst giving us a fighting chance of maybe progressing in a dangerous league next season. In an increasingly competitive Championship we may need his competitiveness to survive, let alone progress. Doyle wasn’t good enough last season, but he helped as a stand-in. Butland must stay and take his turn in the trenches. if he can’t hack it in the Championship, then clearly he’s not as good as people have claimed.

    • Dan H says:

      Our squad are in a better place at the start of this season compared to last.

      1) We have a settled core of the team who have already gelled together
      2) Marlon King and Zigic are fit and ready to play and not injured
      3) We’re not selling players left right and centre
      4) We don’t have the Euro commitments

      If we do sell Butland and Foster (circa £12m) we could realistically bring in an experienced and capable keeper on a free transfer i.e Alan McGregor, Marcus Hahnemman, Joe Lewis (U21) and re-invest the money in the team.

      West Ham, Reading and Southampton won promotion on the back of £10m-£15m investment

      • andy says:

        All well and good in theory,but how much of the money from player sales last season was used to strengthen the squad,what makes you think its going to be different this season,LC has already admitted that he will have to operate in the loans and frees market,he would obviously have asked the question about being able to spend money from any player sales and has obviously been told he wont be getting any of it

      • nicky wicky says:

        If CY wasn’t up in court on money laundering charges then it might of happened but they’ll keep the purse strings tight until thats over.It’s a way of life in the Championship that if you don’t get promoted,have a good cup run ,and good gate receipts you have to sell a player or two to make up the difference because the tv money isn’t enough!

  • andy says:

    Butland stated not so long back that he loves it at Birmingham and is totally focused on becoming the number 1 at Blues. Now if he has changed his mind and favours a big money move to Southampton or elsewhere, then clearly his head would have been turned whilst with the England squad. Birmingham?? It seems to be all rumours but Blues have gone quiet again when asked about the £6 mill bid.

  • Bluenosesol says:

    Just imagine, Blues only had Doyle as first choice keeper, who didnt let us down last year.
    Now we have found 6 million to spend that we didnt expect.
    What would you do? Bolster the squad with half a dozen £1m transfers including a second line keeper to Doyle, or would you blow it all on one new keeper regardless of how good he is? If we keep Butland we will have played our hand because if I am recognised as a 6 million plus footballer, then I want a comensurate salary and that means another Zigic.
    The kid’s brilliant but I say SELL HIM!!

  • Colin Townsend says:

    Just a note , terry westly , he s the one blues should thank look at the number of lads blues have coming though the academy and a few more on the way

  • Andy says:

    If we start next season with Colin Doyle as No1 then I am buying a Walsall season ticket. They guy is poor in every respect. Yeah, he saved a couple if penalties last year, but how many times have we seen him chewing his gum looking like a lump in the grass has cost us s goal just after he has let one in!! We need to keep BF or JB as number 1.

  • andy says:

    If reports are correct and Butland is sulking and wanting showdown talks because Blues have denied him a move to Southampton then i am very disappointed with his attitude and Blues should pack him off take the £6 million and good luck to the kid!!

  • Oxford Blue says:

    Went to see Butland play for Cheltenham against Oxford, and I can tell you he’s the real thing. For a kid of 18, he pulled off a string of top draw saves, in fact he was the reason Cheltenham finished so high in the league. What he needs is time, goal keepers don’t mature till there a lot older. What will frustrate him is not getting experience at a higher level. He knows he should be knocking on Harts door for that England place, but will not get it languishing in second tier football on loan.

  • Steve-0 says:

    No, if Butland is whinging he can’t go to Saints then he gets told to wind his neck in. He’ll soon get over it when he’s Blues first choice working with Watson. He may even think himself as being a bit naive.

  • evesham blue says:

    We need 2 goalkeepers at least. Foster is too expensive to keep(no pun intended) and Doyle will only sign back on with reassurances he is first choice. Baggies wont pay Foster’s value as they are cheap skates and cant afford him. They are playing a who is more desperate than the other game.

    6M for Butland is ridiculous for an untried keeper but problem is the money they have offered upfront is probably not enough from Southampton. We could lose the lot of them and have difficulty replacing them. What do we do? Well perhaps we need to tell Baggies to do one and keep Foster. Doyle is not good enough and Butland is too hyped but could be worth something if someone is prepared to pay over the odds for the hype. So Southampton pay some more money upfront and you can have him. Else maybe the GB team will increase his value

    Think Foster would not say no to playing for Blues if we told Baggies to O121?

    • evesham blue says:

      Hmmm. Baggies without Foster would struggle. What would be a fair price? They wont pay over the odds with his salary and we cant risk playing Foster in the championship due to his wages and losing his value and running his contract down. Now we are keen to recoup the outlay but Baggies wont stump up the cash. 4M would be reasonable to both parties to tip the deal? Butland is probably worth hamging onto. Odds are he will increase in value with regular starts? Doyle? Well he wants to be nu,ber one after playing second fiddle for too long but he is inly steady and not particularly outstanding

  • maurice walters says:

    Hi AL relying on you still for all the latest talk/info (remember i live in asia) 6 mil it seems to me an awfull lot of money to turn down for a 19 year old do you think it is true or just hype as i can not see blues turning down that sort of money, maurice

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