Often Partisan

Herding Cats

I’ve been following a couple of debates surrounding the fairly recently formed Blues Collective on a couple of the unofficial forums. The Collective held a meeting on Saturday at St Andrews to get together various supporter groups and forums under one collective header.

I think anyone who tries to get together Blues fans requires some kudos. Blues fans for whatever reason are quite a sharply cynical bunch and thus efforts to get them into one cohesive group to try to improve matters is, from my experience at least, akin to herding cats. Thus for the Collective to pull together thirty or so different Facebook groups, Twitter pages, blogs and forums is an impressive tally and points towards someone who is really trying their hardest to do something constructive.

At this point, I have to make an admission. I’m one of those hardened cynical Blues fans; I rarely believe transfer stories before the player is actually holding the scarf on the Kop and I’ve grown massively sceptical of a quick resolution of the ongoing ownership saga. I was asked to join the Collective myself as “Often Partisan”, and it seems alone out of most sites out there I politely declined. Although I write, edit and publish OP I’ve always said that they are just my opinions and research – I don’t profess to represent much less want to represent anyone and thus I didn’t believe I had anything to offer the Collective.

Thus I can see what I am going to say next might sound like one of those bitterly cynical and jaded Blues fans but I’m going to go with it anyway. I learnt the hard way via my experiences with the Trust that one has to be very, very careful of what they say and promise to football fans. It’s one thing having big grandiose ideas but it’s entirely another to be able to execute them. I will freely admit I’m a football fan who thinks fans deserve a bigger say in not just how their club is run but the whole game; and as such I’m a believer in fan representation within clubs and within footballing authorities. However, I think the phrasing about learning to walk before running is very apt; sometimes it makes more sense to start small and do small things right before trying to do the big things.

The truth is when you start making pronouncements as someone who wants to do something to improve things for the wider fanbase you put yourself up to ridicule – again, this is something I know from personal experience and given my chance I think I’d say and do some things very differently this time around. PR is a vastly underrated tool and I worry for the Collective that they are struggling to deal with some of the less positive opinions out there having seen some of the exchanges on forums like smallheathalliance.com. If they are to be successful, they, like the Trust (who have also struggled at times with the more cynical fans) have to engage those cynical types with constructive answers.

I’m not trying to slate the Collective or say that I’m better than them because I don’t believe that for one second – however what I am trying to say is that to become the positive force for change and a voice that they so desire it’s going to take a lot more work than encouraging groups to sign up to a banner. Most Blues fans don’t belong to a supporters group or post on a messageboard; whilst social media is popular the level of engagement on those pages is not dissimilar to the levels of engagement on messageboards where 90% of members won’t actually post on them. If the Collective (and for that matter the Trust) are to succeed, then it’s those fans that need to be involved. It’s one thing to improve dialogue with the club – they are listening to us at least in Birmingham. It’s another to improve dialogue with the vast majority of the fanbase.

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66 Responses to “Herding Cats”

  • geraldsquires says:

    Desperate times result in desperate actions it would seem mmmmmm? So many voices yet i dont hear a thing. It does seem a rudderless ship with no clear direction, and what we have here is a collective of people trying to do what they feel is best for the club yet too many voices and one would find it inpossible to hear would it not mmmmm? Its a muddle a jumble and quite frankly i find it irritating to say the least. What we want here is one direction.

  • Margaret says:

    I agree with what you say here and also had the same reaction about joining Blues Collective. My blog is just a personal one and I represent nobody except myself. However when I explained that to them I got replies to my messages and a polite request to let them list my blog. So I changed my mind because, as I said on my blog, “I am always glad to see fans trying to do something rather than just sit on the sidelines and grumble.”

    I think your point about the need for constructive answers is an important one.

  • geraldsquires says:

    I would like to read that

  • oldburyblue says:

    I tend to agree with your stance on this subject Dan. When contacting the Club I do not represent anyone other than myself and 3 fellow season ticket holding family members. I have had cause to do this in the last week or so and am very satisfied with the outcome. As a result of my interactions I hope that all fans will benefit…proving that they DO listen. You do not have to shout to be heard….a lesson some of “The Collective” factions should take on board.

    Fan representation is a very good thing. I just hope there is someone within “The Collective” strong enough to bring the different factions together to present 1 articulate voice which will be heard….though I do have my doubts that this will be possible.

  • David says:

    I’m totally indifferent to it all. I.can’t remember the last time anybody senior at the club other than lee Clark has made any comments. I’m appalled at Peter Pannu’s silence and will not be putting another penny into the coffers until he has gone. I’m sure to get a barrage of comments about supporting the team but my moral compass is telling me not to give any more money to these people who have no interest in the club, the community, the city.

    • Wearynose says:

      I agree with you. Putting money in just encourages BIHL and prolongs the agony of their tenure.

  • Art Watson says:

    Dave,

    Like you I have also decided not to support the club financially until PP and his cronies have disappeared for good.Its the only action I can take to voice my strong disagreement and frustration with these obnoxious people.

    • Dave S says:

      Hey Art looks like your “protest” will be futile like your reasoning, season ticket sales are only slightly down on last season, and that’s after a late sale date, projections indicate the figures will at least match last season. Why not paint a banner? Just as futile.

      To the end of the road

      • Wearynose says:

        Of course it won’t be futile, he will satisfy his objective of not giving his hard-earned cash to scammers trying to recoup as much of their losses as possible. Attendances are at least 10,000 down and a struggle this season will see them eroded even further. “To the end of the road” is just a piece of childish rhetoric which effectively means that you will keep giving BIHL money; you are just the sort of mug who encourages them to prolong their stay. You might just as profitably walk down the street with your wallet dangling precariously from your hip pocket, asking for it to be lifted.

  • KipperBlue says:

    I’ve stopped posting on most Blues related sites cos it seems the fashion to belittle and riducule anyone who is trying to make a difference.

    No-one seems to believe the “from small acorns great oak trees grow” and simply bash any idea unless is (a) agrees totally with their own or (b) has a totally unrealistic number of supporters backing it !

    The Blues Trust get a similar whacking with anything they do and I really think that an awful lot of people think turning up at Stans with burning torches, holding libellous and inflamatory banners will actually achieve something (apart from an increase in arrest rates for WM Police !).

    Maybe lets give these groups some support or, may I be leftfield here, put forward some bloody decent ideas and support themselves.

    • Wearynose says:

      I agree, KipperBlue. The blind and intolerant “support the lads”, whatever passing short-term group of lads that is these days, ilk have nothing to say strategically about trying to combat BIHL, if they even understand the reality of what BIHL are doing.

  • David says:

    Further to my previous post I am a bluenose and always will be. If by my financial non-support until a change in owners means administration or successive relegations then so be it. I’ll still be a bluenose if we are a conference side. I just cannot give my hard earned money to the current shambolic owners to feather their own nests. I would rather save my money and spend it at the club when we have owners who are putting the interests of BCFC first.

    • Wearynose says:

      You’ve got it exactly. Starve BIHL out revenue-wise and then pick the club up from wherever it has fallen to.

  • oldburyblue says:

    Your choice lads. You pay for a ticket and hopefully get 90mins of entertainment. If you don’t want to go…for whatever reason…it’s your money. There are some things we have little or no choice to pay for; rent or mortgage, utility bills etc, but football is a relative luxury.

    I admire your Moral Compass David…mine has been bashed about a bit over the years. I trust your compass also stops you from buying Goods from the many Multi-National Companies that make Millions/ Billions of Pounds per year but pay little or no tax. By not naming those Companies I hope that I have escaped the strict “no politics” rule on this site…hoping that Dan understands the point I am trying to make.

    My analogy would be that if I pay for a coffee on the High Street I am supporting the franchisee and their staff who DO pay tax rather than their often foreign Company owners.

    • Wearynose says:

      That’s not a comparable analogy. You’re deluding yourself. Any cash above basic costs is going to HK, not for the development of the club. It’s not a question of income tax which is not being paid; the owners are creaming off any surplus and any asset which they can realise to reduce their purchase losses. You are keeping them here with your ill-judged support and prolonging the agony of our club.

      • oldburyblue says:

        I am not the deluded one Wearynose. I think YOU are deluded if you think Pannu & co are bothered whether you go or not. As I have posted already, Pannu will have his money out of the Pot FIRST…and ticket sales will go towards the day to day running of the Club. My point was about Moral Compasses. My morals are different to yours obviously. My morals will not allow me to knowlingly stand by whilst ordinary working men & women lose their jobs because of boycotts.

        • Wearynose says:

          You certainly are deluded. If you can’t see in the bright light of summer, heaven help you in the dark days of winter. Of course they would be affected by a huge drop in revenue, especially the great loss if no one went. If you don’t think that the loss of a large part of the revenue stream would bother them then you aren’t aware of the realities of commercial economics. Whilst you keep paying money they will cream off anything which exceeds basic costs, and those costs are being reduced season after season with the transfer out of any decent player and reduced salaries for increasingly lower grade players.
          What the devil have morals got to do with it? As fans, of any club, the intention of going to a match is not to put people into employment and to keep them there it is to watch a skillful, entertaining game of football. I would hope that my club would be run as efficiently as possible, employing no more than was necessary, in order to make as much money as possible available for development with the aim of improving the club. According to your line of thinking, if your local shop was going to close because it sold shoddy, over-priced goods and had no supportable trade then you would go in and keep buying their wares just to keep the assistants in a job. Moral compass indeed! So every failing business should be saved, should it? A fool and his money arte soon parted.
          The lower attendances get the better. BIHL and Pannu rub their hands with glee when the see comment like yours, no wonder the old scammers’ saying, there’s one born every minute.

          • oldburyblue says:

            1. I did not bring up Morals….I was just replying to David who did.
            2. You accuse me of not being aware of commercial economics. You know nothing about me and my background… like I know nothing about you. I didn’t realise that you were an expert in business practice…silly me.
            3. Would I support local shops selling shoddy over-priced goods? No. Would I support local shops being put out of business because of the political, religious or idealistic views of zealots? Yes.
            4. When you talk about failing businesses, is that your REAL aim?

  • Tony says:

    Oldbury you are over complicating matters, these giant multi nationals are divorced from us you cant compare them to Blues ,I agree they should pay tax and government should step in and make sure they do, but no one really cares about some beverage dispensing company and mail order people
    However Birmingham City FC is very personal to all of us, we care about the club and right now Pannu and Yeung are killing us I can well understand peoples reluctance to put money in the fat controllers pocket.

    • oldburyblue says:

      Do you REALLY think they are bothered, Tony? Pannu will take his money whether you contribute to keeping the Club going or not. We have never had any control as to how our money is used whether the owner’s name is Yeung, Gold, Sullivan, Kumar, Wheldon or indeed Coombes. They have always used any money how they think fit and I have never been consulted….have you?

      • Wearynose says:

        You really can’t see very far, Oldbury. The other owners whom you mentioned used revenues to develop the club as much as they saw fit, in accordance with their varying commercial aims. They didn’t drain the huge sums which this crew are doing.

        The difference in the case of BIHL is that they paid, proportionately, £360 for something worth £200 and, given your expressed “moral compass”, I am inclined to believe that that is something which you would do. However, most people understand the position. In this case, the owners are creaming off money to reduce their losses on the ridiculous purchase price which they paid.

        Additionally, because of Yeung’s plight, Pannu has inveigled himself into a money-making position. An International firm of auditors have been unable to pass long-delayed accounts and another firm have heavily qualified them and expressed grave concerns about Pannu’s salary, and ‘expenses’ of around £800k, if I recall reports correctly.

        If you think that paying money to this crew has any point then you have lost your total compass, including the moral part. For your own good, you should get a friend to lend you a compass otherwise I fear for your safety, you shouldn’t go out alone into the big, wide world.

        • oldburyblue says:

          Read the posts properly Wearynose. You posted right after David so you must’ve seen who brought up morals in the 1st place.
          Bottom line. Do I think the present owners are good for the Club? Definitely not. Did I post on this site before and after their takeover that I had concerns about them? Yes. This can be proven if Almajir keeps records of all his posts. Will I be glad when they’ve gone? Yes…..as long as we are not jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. Do I love my Team and Club more than I hate the owners? Yes.

          • almajir says:

            Erm, this site wasn’t around pre-takeover. It only came into existence in 2011, two years after they took over.

          • oldburyblue says:

            If what you say is correct I apologise for my mistake. I do not contribute to many sites…this being by far my favourite. The only other site I can think of is that of The Birmingham Mail. I promise you that I am not clever after the event. I defended Gold & Sullivan when they were under attack and asked questions about who was really behind the bid…Yeung being a large shareholder in a small company that was part of larger Companies in which he only had a small share. Events since suggest that my doubts were well founded.

  • Dave S says:

    I love a good positive debate as much as the next person (PC) but gees guys change the record,please.
    MK’s in trouble again I see, just to end on a positive note lol

    KRO

  • Dave S says:

    Dan,
    Did I read things wrong, the money going to PP’s company is actually reducing the blues debt or am I going mad?

  • Wearynose says:

    There is no logic in the case which this piece makes for not joining on the basis that it is a nascent collective of disparate groups and individuals. A unified group will not suddenly be found to exist one morning. The disparate parties have to meet and discuss their views and to try to agree an agenda, platform, strategy and ethics of expression for the group. One of the obvious conditions for that to happen would be that the various views must be distilled into a group agenda, with some extremes discarded and other views softened. If they can’t, then it will not be successful and it will be short lived. But, it will be better to have tried than not to have tried at all for the silly reason of the disparateness of the potential members.

    If they don’t try then that existing condition will continue to exist and how will any progress be made? In two years’ time BIHL could still be the owners and the disparate parties will still be that because apparently it’s wrong in some minds to try to address that condition for the very reason that it exists and therefore they will always be disparate. So, in two years’ there will definitely be no collective to take action, whether that action can be effective or not is irrelevant, to endeavour to combat the dead hand of BIHL.

    Senator John Kerry has brought Hamas and the Israelis together to discuss the impasse between them and to try to bridge the hitherto (forty year) gulf between their positions. He has given them nine months in which to do it. The Blues disparity is not as great and all parties have far, far more commonality than the Middle East adversaries. The fact is that there are at least 25,000 Blues fans and there will be the same number of opinions, varying subtly but totalling a wide range of expression, as you recognise. To be defeatist for the reason given is ridiculous. If it can be attempted to find some common ground between the even wider range of opinions of millions of Israelis and millions of Palestinians then this collective attempt is worth a try and is not remotely beyond the possibility of resolution.

    The other reason which you give carries no weight either. The advertising of the attempt to form a collective gives all fans the right to contribute. If they don’t then that is their decision. It doesn’t invalidate the process if they aren’t a part of it. Secondly, as in national democracy, everyone can have a vote but it is the elected parties and their manifesto, accepted by the outcome of the ballot, which delivers the policy and consequent actions. It is the collective distillation of the views of the electors. The Blues collective would be just as valid.

    It’s funny that “disparity for ever (DFE)” equates to “keep right on (KRO)”!

    • Staffordshire Blue Nose says:

      For once a resoned and potlical comment that makes perfect sense, I had to read this comment several times to come to that conclusion but the big man with the most money will 99 out of a 100 come out on top, what we little people need to do is make sure we have that 1 in 100 chance to win. The problem is there aren’t enough of us pointing in the same direction even if we have the same goal.

    • nezbleu says:

      I’m afraid, almajir, Wearynose has got you bang to rights here. I enjoy your blog, First place I go for BCFC news and comment. I was disappointed to read this apology for not involving yourself with this initiative. It seems that your argument is that as it may not, indeed, probably won’t, succeed to any great degree any time soon, then you would rather not be associated. You are, by virtue of this blog, already involved in the various debates about Birmingham’s future. You are also one of the best informed and thoughtful. Your input could only have been a positive one. Even if it was to warn against promising too much and promoting a realistic agenda. Things may not move quickly, that is not to say that there would be no long-term influence.

      I don’t want to criticise you almajir, you do a good job here. One I really do appreciate. I accept the point that representing ‘the fans’ is next to impossible. But to represent the viewpoint of a section of fans or even just the view of someone well-informed who cares would, surely, be valuable. And, of course, trying, knowing that you will probably fail is sooooo Birmingham.

      Otherwise, looking forward to your coming season.

      A la prochain

  • sutton apex says:

    blues supporters trust is the future – aka swansea

  • gaz smith says:

    Dave/Art
    im with you. Maybe im a little bit older than most but i remember when we went into admin last time and Sullivan took over from kumars and we had one of the best 20 years in our history. We will always support blues whatever the division and i for one won’t be supporting pannu and young

  • DoctorD says:

    Al — one thing i didn’t understand in your post was the following:

    “I learnt the hard way via my experiences with the Trust that one has to be very, very careful of what they say and promise to football fans.”

    Who do you mean by “they”? Do you mean organisations like the Trust who are trying to represent fans — or do you mean the Club itself?

    Anyway, I think your bottom line is a bit perverse: it’s hard to represent fans so I’m not going to join in. A much stronger reason for staying out is simply that you want OP to be independent. This is your blog and your ideas so joining up could compromise what you say. That’s a more valid rationale.

    • DoctorD says:

      Actually I’ve just re-read your blog and that’s pretty much your rationale for staying out. I’ll shut up now.

    • almajir says:

      I do mean organisations like the Trust. I believe in the maxim “under-promise and over-deliver” and I think it’s pertinent – if you’re going to promise something it has to be something that is achievable and identifiable. I think that there is a lot of “blue sky” thinking – ie people being idealistic and whilst that’s nice in the long term it’s wiser to have your feet on the ground and try to achieve small things first – I think there has been too much concentration on building a social media platform and not enough on what the platform actually is.

  • steve says:

    Just been to walsall tonight 125 year celebration.
    4000 villa 3000 thousand home fans.
    Fact is both teams have had problems throughout their history but.

    125 years on both clubs remain the same
    .what ever happens to blues you will be there in another 125 years.

  • Almajir’s blogs are, as always, thought provoking and well constructed – wish I could rit like that! – and the responses to the above missive clearly reveal that our beloved club has a solid following of like-minded individuals who just agree to disagree from time to time. OK, much of the time. ;-)

    However, as has been said, anything that brings us fans together is a plus for the Birmingham City, and I’d have been there for the Blues Collective gathering too except that Peter P. wasn’t prepared to stump up for my $2,308.97 traveling expenses to be in attendance.

    We recently won the League Cup. Great. Now two years on we’re being tugged at by the current that threatens to drag us all down into the murky depths – no, not Villa Park you idiot! – but folks, we’re still here, and have our heads above water.

    Let us see what the season brings, and put into action the definition of ‘supporter’. OK, I’ll help out with that one . . . it’s one who ‘supports’.

    I don’t doubt for one moment that any of us doesn’t love this ‘also ran’ club. We’re unique, our club is too, so let us keep it that way.

    Signed: ‘Beyond the far post Johnny’ . . . not a joke obviously. ;-)

  • Lestby Avenue says:

    Huh…???

    “……and thus I didn’t believe I had anything to offer the Collective……”

    Except, support, knpwledge, contacts, advice (especially if they go down the wrong path)…

    …nothing to offer ?

    Not even as an ‘outside’ advisor’ ?

    ………

    Many of us have read the shrewd calculations on other forums, from people who knit our meagre information together, and produce a hypothesis but claim it is inside knowledge or tip-offs or a ‘rumour’ they’ve heard etc etc etc

    YOU don’t do that AJ. You are very sensible and pretty grounded in the things you blog.

    I wish you would reconsider wanting to remain an “outsider”.

    Whether it is to protect your sources and information so that your ‘book’ has topicality and interest…
    …we don’t know.

    BUT….surely, your terrific knowledge, acces and contacts , would help the Collective.

    I can understand you needing to remain outside, whereas 2 … ” Hate Blues” … forums have managed to slip inside the Radar and regard themselves as players.

    I realise that you and your blog don’t want to be absorbed.

    Fair Play, but, without you we will have the fantasies of the “SHREWD” posters, who always claim…”something, I heard , may not be trues…” and so on.

    I appreciate the logic that you have used in justifying your “non-participation”-

    BUT—I hope you re-consider.
    Please find an avenue of support, contact or advice to this very spontaneous action by the noses.
    Please ?

    AJ, in my oionion you are miles ahead of any opposition, you don’t need to go into Hedgehog mode.

    :-)

    • almajir says:

      Thanks for your thoughts Letsby.

      It’s not about my book, or about the site being absorbed, it’s about impartiality. When I write, I write what I think and I want to continue to do that objectively without fear of treading on someone’s toes. I am happy to talk to the Collective, and if they ask for my advice I’ll give it – but I’m not joining because I also want to be able to criticise if necessary.

  • StevieW says:

    People will only support success so the likes of the trust need to produce positive results to gain any large support/membership.

    But it is always the same hard work with positive results by the few will be enjoyed by the masses.

  • Blueboy 88 says:

    Cats are not born to be herded , they are too free thinking & independent…

    A lesson there for the Trust & Collective..

  • chudlt says:

    I have one take on all of these groups.” If I didn’t vote for you don’t speak for me”.
    Until any of the groups have a majority of supporters as members and carry out a democratic consultation with these members on their policies they will achieve nothing.
    As the blogger states you have to start small and build. The first thing any group needs to do is to recruit a large amount of supporters. Until then they speak for a minority. As for recruiting individuals into a group collective, that will only result in Anarchy.

    • Wearynose says:

      Your last sentence contradicts your penultimate sentence. As one example: political parties recruit individuals and that has been a part of our democracy for more than a hundred years, anarchy hasn’t resulted as you state that it would.

  • m says:

    hi to you all,
    i am getting a headache with all this politicing……….have we a match on saturday? are we going to see a good team out? are we going to see an exciting formation? and are we going to enjoy the day…….
    i certainly hope so…….

  • Kev says:

    I know both Almajr and one of the main organisers of the collective – and I like to think we are friends.

    I do get the point that Almajr is saying, but I honestly believe that there is strength in groups of people getting together “for a louder voice.”

    Whatever criticisms people have about the collective, (not a dig at this article at all), the fact that the club have opened communications surely has to be a good thing for the fans.

    The comment above about this only representing a minority is a fair one, but nonetheless I would imagine many views that the minority have would be shared more widely.

    I’m happy for joys and Sorrows to be a part of this, let’s go on a journey and see what happens. You never know, it could be a positive one.

    Kev

  • dave mann says:

    my supporters group consists of myself, my wife, my son, my dog, my brother and
    thats it, everyone else are friends ,fans and drinking buddies in the boozer before
    and after games and the private coach we hire for away games.
    bring on saturday, cant wait, then yeovil the week after,
    KRO.

  • BhamCityJulian says:

    I agree with you.

    Il go back to why I haven’t joined the Trust: despite what they say they are 1/ a protest group 2/ have misguided objectives obviously in my opinion

    They’ve come into existence because of the serious mismanagement of the club. If we were financially stable and CY was not bring the club into disrepute there’s no reason to suggest there’d have been the trigger to start it up.

    I am also deeply concerned at what I see as naivety at a stated aim of Board representation. Even a well run business doesn’t embrace ‘customers’. No matter how well intentioned they might want to spin it how can they not see that BIH would see that as confirming a perception that they would be ‘vipers in their midst’?

    You are right. The mass bulk of BCFC are effectively ambivalent to BCFC related social media

  • Tony says:

    Tend to agree with Julian any group would be considered Vipers in the midst, however BIH Will not be in existence for much longer.Maybe the aims of the trust can be considered naive in some respects but,as has been stated it has come about solely because of the state the club is in I am certain the people running it are true well meaning supporters .
    For that reason I have joined the trust it makes me feel I am doing something however little.

  • AL-LAD says:

    I don’t wish to appear negative but what do Blues fans think they can accomplish?
    We don’t own the club, we don’t sit on the board of directors, we are not employed by the club, we are not in a position of power, our influence is limited, we are unfortunately observers to our present circumstances. We can’t force the sale of the club, or effect the clubs finances except for the purchase of ticket sales and club merchandise.

    I’m not against fan groups or supporters trusts, but it appears to be an attention seeking exercise where numerous people without any control in the clubs fortunes can crow about or vocalise their frustrations at the running off the club.

    It’s a pointless action that will only serve to infuriate fans further when there tantrums are ignored by the clubs power brokers.

    It would be better served if we could muster this amount of effort in actually supporting the team on the pitch, as I’m afraid where the boardroom is concerned, what will be, will be.

  • Bluenosesol says:

    Who recalls The Blue Revolution? – We commandeered Tony Butler’s Phone In one night and filled the Town Hall with 6000 fans at an action meeting. So you can encourage the fans to act together with the right planning and publicity!!

    • almajir says:

      How long did that last? Was it one or two meetings?

      • Wearynose says:

        So, because one attempt a long time ago failed to continue you think that that is a reason for not trying now. What a hopeless, defeatist position. How many wars would any army win if it gave up after losing the first battle. Your position is so defeatist and lacking in logic it’s presentation is mystifying.

      • Bluenosesol says:

        Fact is Dan, you said you cant gather Blues fans together. The Blue Revolution commandeered local press and airwaves for 2 weeks and gathered 6000 Bluenoses. It failed due to misdirection of the man in charge who alienated the fans by trying to orchestrate a failed walk out, when the fans had voted for a post match sit in. If you can amass 6000 Bluenoses like we did, I’ll say fair play to you! PS The Board did go!

        • almajir says:

          No, I don’t think I said that at all – I think I said that it was very difficult to pull together a disparate fanbase. I thought I’d made it clear I had no intentions “to unite the fans”?

  • Wearynose says:

    oldburyblue says:

    August 2, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    1. I did not bring up Morals….I was just replying to David who did.
    2. You accuse me of not being aware of commercial economics. You know nothing about me and my background… like I know nothing about you. I didn’t realise that you were an expert in business practice…silly me.
    3. Would I support local shops selling shoddy over-priced goods? No. Would I support local shops being put out of business because of the political, religious or idealistic views of zealots? Yes.
    4. When you talk about failing businesses, is that your REAL aim?

    For heaven’s sake, Oldbury; do you not even understand what you have written? David expressed the view that morally he will not give any more money to BIHL. You said, quote: “My morals will not allow me to knowingly stand by whilst ordinary working men & women lose their jobs because of boycotts”. That’s your comment, your view, regardless of whether someone else introduced the subject of morals. Your comment about keeping staff in employment is irrelevant and fatuous, as I have posted before in reply.

    Your comment is the only indication which others can use to deduce your awareness of economics. You made a silly, supposedly moral claim, about keeping staff in employment. I didn’t claim to be an expert in economics, I merely related the reality which most of us conclude from events in national affairs as we go through life, a sort of social osmosis which, from your comment, seemed to have been a process which escaped you.

    With regard to your third point, I suspect that what you actually mean is the opposite of what you have written. You have written that you would support shops being put out of business by zealots. “Yes”, you said. It seems that you don’t understand what you have written. Your point is fairly obscure anyway. If you relate “zealots” to the fans who advocate a boycott of the club then you are crackers. That means that you support BIHL and Pannu just because of the fact that they control the club for which you have an affection. In any other activity, multi nationals were an example you gave who pay minimal tax, you say that you would avoid patronising any organisation which was scamming and blagging. Yet, just because it’s the Blues owners you will accept scamming and blagging. Your “support” is not going to the club; it’s going back to HK. It really is very generous of you to help them out of a financial hole by giving them money for watching an ever-decreasing standard of product from the latest collection of low-cost misfits from around the football world.

    With regard to your fourth point, my desire is to be rid of the Chinese crew. The fact that accounts are still not up to date and those which have been published have been qualified and subject to scepticism by auditors means, together with the continuous sale of anything for which a price can be obtained, that Blues is a failing business. The owners have no interest in it as a football business; it is only worth its ownership for as long as people keep putting money into it. The answer is not to keep giving BIHL money, it is to dry up the revenue as far as we can. If it means administration then so be it. That condition will help to bring about the end of BIHL’s tenure. As others have said, I don’t mind if we are in the Conference when it happens. Like the way in which Wimbledon fans resurrected their club, starting a new one to continue the ethos generated by their locality, Blues fans can rebuild the club from wherever it has fallen once we have got rid of BIHL.

    Putting your money into the club is not in fact helping the club; it is easing BIHL’s losses. With your attitude to helping scammers you might just as profitably, as I said to someone else, walk down the street with your wallet dangling precariously from your hip pocket, asking for it to be lifted by any nefarious little crook.

    • almajir says:

      FYI – accounts are up to date.

    • oldburyblue says:

      You do go on! Take a chill pill. Your responses say more about you than me I think. I could tell you why I detest zealots of any kind who think they are right and the majority are wrong….but it has nothing to do with football, so it would not be appropriate.

      To close…..because what began as interesting banter has now become very boring…..you missed a treat today. We may have lost but the atmosphere from the thousands of fans supporting the TEAM was great. Money WELL spent.

      • Wearynose says:

        You still don’t understand what you have written, which says a lot about you. Attending yesterday put money into BIHL, not the team or the development of the club. We do not have a team, we have a transient bunch of drifters from the football world and players who belong to other clubs. We do not have a team with a large degree of ownership, and the sense of belonging, which that brings. We do not have any investment in the team, no year-on-year plan for team development, we have the very opposite. Your money was not well spent, it went largely to BIHL and Pannu.

        • oldburyblue says:

          Weary….The fish is hooked….the reel has been wound…..now lets put it in my keepnet. just to annoy the fish further. I had a wonderful time yesterday. The great company of like-minded fans, great food and drink, a good match with more atmosphere than experienced for a long long time. You were not missed. Keep up the good work…your intentions are good even if I and thousands of others disagree with your tactics.

          Mind that blood pressure!

          • Wearynose says:

            Oldbury, you spout nonsense, try to put Dave down with a stupid point about keeping people employed and then run away from it. You couldn’t hook your braces up.

          • oldburyblue says:

            And STILL the fish wriggles!! To use a different Sporting term……Treble 20, treble 20, treble 20 ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY! Too easy…I’M Weary now.

            Hope you enjoy not being able to take part in future banter and the expression of views regarding players, teams and performances…unless you’ve ALWAYS been an armchair critic of course and it has never stopped you in the past!

            Enjoy your shopping trips every Saturday. I hate the expression normally… but LOL!!!!


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