- Home
- Birmingham City
- Current Squad
- Adam Legzdins
- Jonathan Grounds
- Paul Robinson
- Ryan Shotton
- Maikel Kieftenbeld
- Robert Tesche
- Stephen Gleeson
- Clayton Donaldson
- Diego Fabbrini
- David Cotterill
- Rhoys Wiggins
- Che Adams
- Lukas Jutkiewicz
- Viv Solomon-Otabor
- Jacques Maghoma
- Greg Stewart
- Jonathan Spector
- David Davis
- Michael Morrison
- Tomasz Kuszczak
- Paul Caddis
- Development Squad
- Academy
- Ladies Team
- Sophie Baggaley
- Alex Windell
- Meaghan Sargeant
- Jess Carter
- Kerys Harrop
- Freda Ayisi
- Kirsty Linnett
- Bella Linden
- Andrine Hegerberg
- Abbey-Leigh Stringer
- Melissa Lawley
- Charlie Wellings
- Chloe Peplow
- Rebecca Lloyd
- Connie Schofield
- Emily Westwood
- Cheryl Edwards
- Corina Schröder
- Ashlee Brown
- Coral-Jade Haines
- Aoife Mannion
- Ann-Katrin Berger
- Out on Loan
- Former Players
- Boards and Advisors
- Appearance Data 2014/2015
- Current Squad
- Factfiles
- Series
- Sponsorship
- Website Info
- Social Media
- Contact Me
The Ownership We Deserve
With Jeremy Wray’s takeover of Birmingham City seemingly stalled once again people online have questioned whether BIH want to sell the club. Although there is undoubtedly difficulties in selling the club due to the intertwined nature of its finances with BIH and the hoops that the regulatory authorities want BIH to jump through, one does wonder if there is other reasons for the continued delay in news let alone a sale.
One thing that has concerned me of late has been the way that Carson seems to have become involved in the way the holding company is run. Despite being incarcerated on money laundering charges it appears that the former hairdresser is holding some sway – especially considering the information last week that Carson had suggested that BIH be sold rather than the club.
With Carson having come to some sort of arrangement to cease repossession of his house he must have had some money from somewhere to satisfy the bank – where that money has come from I wouldn’t possibly like to speculate (and I will appreciate it if no one else does in the comments either) – then I would have to say it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that he is sorting other things out to his satisfaction from his prison cell.
It doesn’t help when there are whispers from Hong Kong that Carson has now fallen out with Cheung Shing, the new BIH chairman over something to do with the newspaper Sing Pao, another company that Carson has a substantial stake in. What exactly the cause of this supposed antipathy is I am unsure of – as I am the veracity of the information – but one cannot deny that Carson seems to be pulling strings again.
Back in March following Carson’s conviction I gave links to information so people could write to the Football League about Carson’s involvement in the club. I was trying to put together a dossier at the time, and following various discussions I held fire on what I was trying to do because it looked like the club was being sold. We’re now in the middle of July – the sale of the club doesn’t look any closer and once again I wonder if pressure needs to be put on the FL to solicit answers from BIH about Carson’s links with the club.
The facts remain the same – Carson Yeung is a convicted money launderer, whose modus operandi according to facts stated in his trial (not to mention my own research of public documentation) is to obfuscate his ownership of listed companies via the usage of nominees and lack of documentation. While it is true that Carson holds no official position within BIH or BCFC I would contend that it’s entirely possible he is exerting some sort of control via family members being on the board; I would also contend that as he has repeatedly flouted stock exchange rules in the past over disclosure of interests in listed companies it is entirely possible that he is doing the same at this moment over his share holding in BIH.
The one thing that holds me back is the feeling that apathy is so high among fans many don’t care enough to step forwards and do something about it. I’m not talking about “boycotting” here – if people were serious about boycotting they would actually picket the ground* and tell real people why they were against the ownership with hard facts – as it stands it appears that most are of the slacktivist aim of not going and continually moaning about it online. If people aren’t prepared to take positive steps to make the club better, then do we get the ownership we deserve?
Tags: BIH, Carson Yeung, Cheung Shing, Ownership, The Fans, The Takeover
93 Responses to “The Ownership We Deserve”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Out of interest did anyone get a response from either the Football League or Premier League that emailed them regarding this, i know i didn’t not even an acknowledgement of receipt.
agree with all the comments.I wrote to the football league about our owners,had a standard no-comment reply,I passed it to someone from the trust,at one of the matches,I did get an acknowledgement but…there you go.
I got a nice reply that explained the situation as it stood up to the end of the season and that the FL had assurances that CY would not have any controlling interests in both BCFC and BIHL.
This news from Dan must raise some eyebrows and worth looking into.
KRO+DNM
I don’t think anyone deserves the type of owners we have Dan but I understand the point you are making.I also think that many fans including me do not understand the most effective way of dealing with the problem-what should we be saying in our correspondence to the FL and surely they must be aware of what’s going on or am I being nieve?
Their problems with the HKSE is nothing new. They’ve had problems with them since 2011 – hence why they were removed from it in the first place.
People keep telling me that they are desperate to sell; however, how many opportunities have they had to sell this club? Paladini, Eales and now Wray along with others have been willing to take it off them; yet it always ends the same way.
There is always an excuse for not selling and now this problem with the HKSE is the latest one.
I’m not saying that they are lying – but these issues are a direct result of their poor business practices in the first place by not filing accounts and an owner now who is now behind bars.
Why should you, I, or anyone else connected with the club continue having to be led up the garden path just so BIHL can get the money rolling into the bank to keep their shell of a company going?
Personally, I respect anyone who wants to disagree. But I am certainly not going to sit here and swallow the “it’s not their fault” argument why they can’t sell. They gave us all a reason for optimism at the end of last season by announcing four interested parties and then they would go through the details with the preferred bidder and take it from there.
After the Paladini fiasco – where he was eventually dressed to be the villain; I will never listen to another word of what comes out of Pannu or BIHL’s mouth again.
Yet another ‘catastrophe’ occurs and the whole thing is shelved – strangely once season ticket money and sponsorship money is in the bank, and big earners are off the wage bill.
They’ve had their opportunities; and with every bidder they knock back, the less chance they have of selling when they actually do want to sell.
Excellent post and I couldn’t agree more but how do we move forward.?
Personally I decided not to support the club financially and this is just my way of protesting against PP and the rest of the Board.Others will disagree with this and I respect there views but in the meantime the club is dying a slow death both on and off the field.In many respects a lot of the hard core fans have already voted with their feet and the morgue at STA is a testament to the poor football being dished up and last years lucky escape.
Interestingly if the team could consistently stay in the top 6 the missing fans would return and the supporters wouldn’t be too concerned about what’s going on with the takeover….just my opinion!
All that makes sense… but do you really think all the fans will come back? I’m sceptical as to whether that’s true any longer. But, as you say, it would be interesting to see if a good first half of the season would bring them back.
I think a top 6 finish could add 4000//5000 to the current home gate and premiership football would bring in around 26’000. I’m sure the fans are sick to death about the shenanigans and antics of PP and his cronies with but success on the field would soon redirect their focus. Problem is we need new owners and serious investment to get the success….catch 22 I’m afraid.
I don’t think the gates will improve until the ownership changes.We struggled to get 20,000 with the cheap ticket offers.And we struggled to get 23,000 in the last two or 3 seasons in the premiership. Even the Viler games weren’t sold out. New owners and cheaper prices is the only way to get the fans back.
Spot on. People have many reasons why they don’t go anymore and one of them has to be cost. It’s not so bad if you have a well-paid job, but if you’re in a low income job, or out of work, with kids to feed, you can’t justify spending that kind of money on a ticket/ST. A bit of investment and thought and consideration where pricing is concerned and it might bring a few thousand back.
As for those who are keeping their money in their pockets due to ownership issues, they obviously feel strongly about it, so I’m not sure a successful season would make any difference to them. Or would it?
Staffs IMO just going to legoland was a painful pay out, in light of that it’s expensive what anyone does today for leisure..
It’s not like it used to be, these days, football has a lot more rivals for the pound in your pocket. It’s all about VFM I suppose.
Also staffs I mentioned along time ago selling out the working classes is a cardinal sin in my opinion….
Same with all ‘working class’ sports. Have you seen how much it costs to go fishing these days? I used to go down Rotton Park rezza with my rod and 2 bob’s worth of maggots. You’d need a mortgage these days.
I hope not Staffs, if it was VFM then St Ans would be empty on last seasons showing :-)
KRO+DNM
I can’t argue with that mate. Not much home cheer. Still, a new season is upon us. :-)
Looking forward to this season more than last, not sure why as we were suppose to have a stronger team last season, with seasoned internationals and proven cup winners.
KRO+DNM
I don’t think we had a better team last season. We had a few better players before Xmas, but I wasn’t impressed with the loan replacements. This season, we have a squad who are all our own and all pulling in the right direction.. it can make all the difference. I won’t be pessimistic until I have good reason to be.
Think you are right. What’s served up on the pitch is the biggest factor re crowd support. And we’ve been served up poor performances which will be matched by poor crowds and poor atmosphere.
Correct-under Hughton homes gates were 17,000-18,000 compared to 13,000-14,000 last season.
Success really does make a difference and frankly I don’t think the majority of fans care a toss about who own the club until things start going wrong on the pitch.
They are, in my view, lying. Yeung was a corrupt Crook using this shell of a club as a vehicle for money laundering. That being the case, the deal they’ve been offered is very attractive. I have no doubt that if Wray manages to wrest the club from you-know-who’s grubby little hands, there will be more going to Jail. Stalling won’t make it go away. It will however cause the club or BIHL to collapse and fold financially. It does seem we are low profile and are quietly watching the slow death of our club without a murmur.
There is absolutely no set time for them to leave, they themselves have talked about diversifying, but that may not necessarily mean anything…. As Daniel pointed out some may have actually put money in!!!maybe if it is too complex to sell even 24% ??just maybe they realise they will need to float themselves….by putting their own money in
They could commit Hara kiri ,Japanese I know but hey ho there you go.
Good comment
Dan through your own hard work you have become privi to some inside information and wether you like it or not it is you that we look to for something to change.So why don’t you post some of the more sensitive information you have about Carson and BIHL and maybe it will kick start some kind of action that we all want.
Jaffa
Not sure if you remember mate, but in the last few months I’ve had a fair few legal threats – do you not think I’m being careful? Do you not think I am publishing what I can?
“Slacktivist”! lol I can see that being in next year’s OED!
Dan, It was not my intention to offend you and we all realise how careful you have to be with what you post. But it is very frustrating when we all know what is going on and no one can be accused of any wrong doing.
It does appear that season ticket holders have been royally stitched up with the early “news” of a sale.
As Talking heads once sang, “Same as it ever was.” I think we need to forget about any sale and just concentrate on the new season.
Breach of contract in any other circumstance… or conned in layman’s terms? Their news was suitably edited to hype advance purchases by the loyal few… isn’t it any wonder prospective purchasers have difficulty making deals with folk that have such a record of careful selectivity with their version of the truth?
Do you think that, BIHL/PPs thought, if we announce (another) takeover, people might get suspicious of the timing… but if Jeremy Wray announces it, people will probably re-new their season tickets? Or am I just an old cynic?
As my Dad used to say… They are taking us for ‘mugs’ ! And understandably some are falling for it. The Club is financially sustainable it would seem as at present, so until relegation beckons there’s no reason for CY to rush a sale. He’s even got time to change the rules of engagement! It’s a difficult scenario choice for supporters to deal with but if the team should get lucky and challenge then the concerns over the ownership will diminish into the background. But if it fails then the decline might be quite rapid as support deserts the Club and the Board will be glad to sell any part to anyone at any price rather than the get nothing Admin option.
tmsblues this was always going to be the case, we all knew that ,even the st purchasers realised it.
What is the difference between selling BIHL and selling the Club?
I think BIHL could be sold in full but as it stands the club can only be partly sold to protect the BIHL listing on the HKSE.
Thanks Art.
About £20m according to the owners valuation !
more like 35m
i still say the best show of solidarity would be my suggestion of how i used to support blues as a 10 year old,
me and my mates could not afford to go every week, so we walked to the ground and went in for nothing for the last 10 minutes, when the exit gates are opened.
now we could clearly hear the fans singing inside the ground, so it is logical to think that the team could hear us singing from outside the ground if the demonstration was big enough, and if the Birmingham mail, sky sports, and the FA were notified of the protest, i’m sure it would raise a few eyebrows,
both the players, clarke, and the football league, would know blues fans still support blues, not BIHL
and the beauty is BIHL do not receive one penny in income, but still have to pay the team, staff and police.
perhaps once BIHL realise they will go bust the incentive to declare bankruptcy will be expedited,
or we can continue as is, 8000 buying bargain season tickets, and a few thousand more turning up hoping a fairy godfather is going to make it all go away,
the only way to get these jokers out, is starve them out, and i’m pretty sure anybody involved in pest control would confirm, the only cure is the removal of the food supply, in this case, cold hard cash.
Too late as season tickets have already been sold so the only revenue would be matchday.
As with a complete boycott your idea, as interesting as it is, would never become a reality.
I remember getting in just after half time when the gates opened too.
KRO+DNM
Ian I used to do the same almost 60 years ago at the railway end , last 20 mins in for nowt, rest of the time listening to the crowd inside the ground. Then half the time a steamer would pass by couldn’t see
a thing.
I do not understand why the premiere league , and football league have not done their duty to BC , as this is not a normal marriage of bad with the good ,but bigomy ,a complete divorce and end to any in-laws should take place now …
The Premier League and The Football League couldn’t give a monkeys about BCFC and clubs like us william. Simples.
Sad but true Staffs, as long as they have their inflated salaries and equally inflated egos they don’t give a damn.
Both organisations haven’t been fit for purpose in a long time. The Prem are only interested in the top 5 or 6 clubs and it’s Director of Football… Sky Sports and the FL are quite happy to rake in the money, but do bugger all for it’s members. It’s time for a shake up and a move to one organisation that covers all football in this country and has the interests of all 92 member clubs at it’s core.
Yeah I know, wishful thinking. :-/
Dan I have written to the Football League regarding ownership and Carson Yeung only to be told to refer my concerns to the club directly, will this be beneficial or a waste of time and who would it be addressed to?
As Mr Pavlakis is a relative of Carson would he give an unbiased or truthful answer?
KRO+DNM .
Chris I did the same ,and received same reply.
I’m composing another one but thinking is it worth writing to the club first?
After All the current top man is Mr Pavlakis and unlikely to give an honest or direct answer.
KRO+DNM
Well by other peoples accounts Chris, he is the most likely to reply at least.
Don’t suppose anyone has an e-mail address for him at the club?
KRO+DNM
Perhaps the people of the Ukraine could write a nice letter to Mr Putin ,to ask if could please stop being a bit naughty .The FL make me vomit .
Thing is some people are trying to get things noticed and not just whinging about it. Maybe if the FL received 10,000 letters they might just take a little notice, if 20,000 wrote they would notice. We might only be two letters but we made a point and we got a reply.
KRO+DNM
Hi Chris W, could I ask you the address to write to at the FL?
When I wrote I addressed it to an Amanda Craig at enquiries@football-league.co.uk.
She was then customer services administrator.
Hope that helps
KRO+DNM
Thanks Chris W, I have now sent a qiuite lengthy e-mail to the to the customer services administrator. Every little bit helps. KRO.
Good luck, if enough people write it might just make them take notice.
KRO+DNM
You got further than me….I didn’t even get a reply
I have messaged Mr Pavlakis many times through FB and to be fair to him he mainly replies, I messaged him this morning with my concerns with Carson running the club from behind bars using people like himself who are family members, he replied that he isn’t a family member ? I told him I thought he was through marriage to which he replied he was single……!!
I think he is a prospective brother in law rather than a current family member?! You need to ask him a different question or the same one in a different way! I don’t have his address but here’s my suggestion:- Mr Pavlakis, could any future relationship you might have with Mr Young lead to a conflict of interest for you at BCFC or otherwise unduly influence or affect the decisions you might make in your BCFC role? Would your role and decisions at BCFC stand up to scrutiny by the Football League?
Did he deny that Carson is still running things behind bars?
Just as an aside………What’s happened to Chris Burke’s 16 offers?
He has terminated his Twitter account too.
Strange we’ve heard nothing about either Burke or Zigic… not even a whisper. Whereas, both Wade Elliott and Hayden Mullins got fixed up within a week or two.
Burke has launched his own fashion business.Don’t know if that’s taking up his time at the moment.
Has he ? I’ve just been looking at it.
When CY and his cohorts decided that a publicly quoted company was the best vehicle to own BCFC rather than a private company then this decision has created a massive problem since for all parties concerned. Over the past 12 months or so BIH have unsuccessfully tried to sort out the mess caused by the diabolical and incompetent historic corporate governance of BIH. It is now obvious that they miscalculated the situation regarding how best to maximise the return from a sale. They thought that they could sell the club for a market value somewhere between £20 -30M on a phased basis whilst being able to get a second sum when they sold BIH later on once some other trade other than football had been established within the company. Now it appears that they can only sell the whole thing in one go as a full sale of BIH. the problem here for a purchasor is twofold. Firstly, more cash is needed upfront. Secondly, by taking over BIH itself they have got to take on board a potential “can of worms” which arises from all the dodgy dealings of the past. Unfortunately, the clubs previous and existing auditors have been unable to satisfy themselves about all of the historic transactions. On a more positive note it may be that there is a buyer that would be more attracted to a one off purchase rather than the phased buy out of BCFC which has its own shortcomings if they could be satisfied that the historic problems can be overcome. One problem that I have always had with the phased sale is that it could attract buyers who do not have much financial clout as they would be able phase their own investment into the club. In any event new ownership looks like being a long way off still. I think those behind BIH will need to keep pumping in a few quid as administration is a poor alternative to a sale even if the overall amount is much lower they had expected. I don’t think that whoever is running things behind the scenes at BIH believe that long term ownership is viable its just that they have made such a “b**** up of everything that they can’t get their hands on the sale proceeds.
Great summary-problem is the owners value the group at around £60m.
Can’t see anyone wishing to fork out that amount for a club struggling in the championship…..they may however reduce the value as head for administration.
They may have thought that they could get £60M by selling Blues firstly on a phased basis before selling BIH but that plans gone now. the max for Blues seems to be around £30M and they will only ever get cash from a sale if they sell BIH for this sum warts and all. The problem for us fans is that we know the club is going to be run on a shoestring whilst these cowboys are in charge and barring a miracle the best we can keep hoping for is Championship survival. Ultimately, they are going to have to bite the bullet and sell up at a lower price, but, the historic corporate governance and accounting problems don’t seem to be going away and I just hope that they do not prohibit the sale over the long term.
with the wage bill slashed , i think that the board can see the club breaking even and will hang on to the club regardless ,the listing of BIH is already worth more than the football club.I think unless someone with a lot more money than sense takes an interest , i think we are stuck as we are for a good while yet.
yes the big earners are gone, but so are the parachute payments, so BHIL’s only income is BCFC, the 8000 season tickets have now been factored into this years income, and BIHL will expect sales of new shirts which they have paid to have manufactured,
i don’t think blues fans realise we are in a strong position, they really on us buying tickets, shirts, pies, and a pint and now the premier league income has vanished, that is all they have, tickets, shirts, pies and pints,
even the bosmans have a monthly salary, the staff of bcfc have a monthly salary,
and more importantly contracts that have to be honoured.
it would be easy to put a massive squeeze on that budget
and Mr yeungs puppets would have to explain to the shareholders that the outgoings exceed the income. with absolutely no players left to sell, and reducing costs further is near impossible.
I honestly think many groups or individuals would deal with an administrator,
but not with this lot
You make some very good points which have been covered many times by lots of previous posters but sadly apart from the organised “delay no more” protest nothing else has happened.I have always supported boycotting the games as I believe it’s the only effective way for the to fans voice their opinion but this is not shared by everyone.One thing is for certain though and you” hit the nail on the head “when the money starts to run out the board will sell to the highest bidder as administration will not be an option-they stand to lose millions.
He maybe shaken but not stirred……..
I think the first thing all blues fans should do soon is make sure that the man who as put himself in the firing line for all us blues fans ,and make sure he is not out of pocket for all the grief that has been inflicted on him on our behalf ,by all buying his book ,.Here’s to you Dan
Here here-when is the book available to buy?
I think Mark should write a sequel to Alice in Wonderland.
Gosh it didn’t take long before the oh dears came out again….maybe we are in the same mess as Blackpool only 8 players, another two have left today…. Happy days at blues, fans have continued to voice their opinion St are still selling nicely…….blues three tops appear to be spot on…..Clark continue to beaver way to the annoyance of some even more happy days…….the godfather still having his crunchy nut but I really don’t see what the big fuss is all about…….we are blues
As a fan glad to see Doyle aiming for that number 1 spot……..
Been a loyal servant and has been unlucky to have had to shadow some decent keepers, I don’t think Randolph is much better than Doyle so why not give him a run.
KRO+DNM
Daniel you do realise we playing tonight against forest green? What no write up….you cannot be that busy lol
We’re playing 2 different line-ups again. I’m hoping Doyle gets the nod for the season. So far, Doyle, 1 game, 1 clean sheet.
Starting XI for Forest Green tonight: Randolph, Eardley, Edgar, Gunning, Hancox, Arthur, Lee, Brown, Reilly, Cotterill, Donaldson. (4-2-3-1)
Donaldson broke his duck lovely in first half, maginicent turn out by our fans 3000 for the legend cup…..who said our football club dead!!!!!
Forest Green had a few experienced ex-league players tonight… including Lee Hughes and Luke Rodgers up front. Brown, Gray and Arthur did well.
Seems like a decent run out but I would expect to be more convincing than 1-0, though their keepers played blinders by all accounts.
Looking forward to Mansfield Saturday, should be a stiffer test
KRO+DNM
I think the keepers stopped them getting a belting.. especially Russell. He thwarted Donaldson on 3 or 4 occasions in the first half.
What cheer me up was our away support even gave our club doctor a rousing cheer……
And they were applauded by the home fans.
Nearly 400 Bluenoses not bad for a team supposedly on a downward spiral by some!!
About a 2 hour run so that is good support for a midweek friendly.
I’m at Mansfield saturday, that should be a good turnout for the travelling throng, then its Notts County for me.
KRO+DNM
I think it was Rogers who hit the post for them..
Yep. He actually played alongside Thierry Henry in America.
Again just my opinion but Clark should have some serious credit laid at his door. The way he has gone about his business is brilliant, working the players hard, giving everyone the opportunity to be in his thoughts……keeping our young players keen and willing, equally giving them game time….probably one of the best preseason whereby Clark got everything in place, and every player buying into his high tempo ethos.
He included Gray, Brown, Arthur and gave Charlee Adams a run. Plus he included young Connal Trueman for the experience.
IMO again staffs I believe clark is a different animal coming out to play this time around, he did mention he had time away to recharge his batteries…. I also believe he hurting from those events of last season, equally he return with a bang two on bounce, if gets that defense extremely mean our dreams will be recognised IMO.