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Beaten – Watford Reflections
Here are my reflections on the game between Blues and Watford at St Andrews.
Soundly beaten
Let’s make no bones of this – Blues were soundly beaten by the better side. Watford had pace, had guile and had tactics and they bossed Blues. Never mind that the ref and his linos were poor – Watford deserved this win. However, in saying all that Blues were much poorer than they should have been and the majority of the blame lies at the door of Mr Lee Clark.
The Zigic issue aside – and yes, we did miss him – it was the wrong team. Hall has been poor for weeks and yet was picked again to give another absolutely anonymous performance. Thomas should in no way have started, he is not good enough. There was not enough power in the midfield to deal with Watford and as a consequence no matter that Gomis and Elliott tried, they were chasing shadows half the time. A 4-2-3-1 with Gomis and one of Mullins/Spector/Reilly sitting behind an attacking three of Burke, Redmond and Elliott would probably have had more chance up top than Lovenkrands and Thomas did. Compound that error by not taking a clearly unfit Robinson off for thirty minutes plus (which cost us minimum two goals) and you’ve got the hallmarks of an abysmal home performance.
Paul Robinson
I feel bad to have to write about this about the old warhorse but the fact is if he was an actual warhorse he’d probably have been rendered down for glue by now (or turned into a Tesco’s burger at least). He looked shot today; slow, unconvincing and after injuring his foot one-legged. The first goal came about because he couldn’t get near a Davies clearance, allowing Watford’s Ikechi Anya to skip down the right, put in the ball on a plate for Troy Deeney and bam. The third goal came about because Robinson was caught upfield trying to attack, lost the ball and he couldn’t even think about running back – let alone do it – which left poor Nathan Redmond haring back to cover him but he couldn’t prevent Anya squaring it once more for Deeney. He came off almost straight afterward – half an hour or more later than he should have done.
Wes Thomas
Following in the fine tradition of strikers we’ve signed from Bournemouth (Trevor Aylott ring any bells?) there is Wes Thomas. He had one good turn and shot just before we conceded, and he should be credited for that. Unfortunately he also managed to turn and fall over on the edge of the box rather than shoot no less than three times. He doesn’t look like he’s going to score, there is no confidence, nothing. I don’t like slating players after so few appearances but it’ll take a miracle for Thomas to prove he’s worth a go in the shirt. After that performance from Thomas I honestly don’t care if Zigic turns up to training in a pink tutu and declares himself a pretty ballerina, if he’s fit he must play because without him and King we’re as toothless as a 90-year-old sugar addict.
The Fans
I don’t want to write this bit either but I think I have to mention it. The apathy from the stands is incredible and it’s not doing us any favours. The only real singing was the song for Zigic after the third goal which turned into a chorus of boos and no doubt scuffles on the Tilton. It struck me that it’s not just the lack of professionalism that the whole Zigic/Training thing has highlighted, but it’s caused a massive division in the fanbase at a time we need it least. At the final whistle I doubt that there were more than 5,000 fans left in the Blues end – which must be dispiriting to the side – but can you blame fans for leaving when they are served up that kind of tripe?
As I was walking behind the main stand after the game to go into town I overheard some dignitary type tell a group of visitors that “it’s been a very long time since we last lost this heavily at home” – I don’t think she appreciated me piping up as I walked past “not since Barnsley anyway”. The sad thing is prior to this season these kind of results were few and far between but at the moment we look continually vulnerable to it. I didn’t want to have to say this, and it hurts me to do it now, but Lee, your time is up bud. It’s time to call it a day because it’s painfully obvious that it’s not going to work for you, however much you or I would want it to. Be a man and walk away.
Tags: Lee Clark, Morgaro Gomis, Nikola Zigic, Paul Robinson, Robert Hall, Wade Elliott, Watford FC, Wes Thomas
227 Responses to “Beaten – Watford Reflections”
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It just seems no matter what Happens there’s nothing anyone can do In our current situation, we haven’t the money to sack Clark, nor the money to bring in any decent help. All we can do is hope we win once every 4 games to keep us hovering above the dreaded “r zone” until we get taken over and something with a silver lining can finally appear, because at the moment it’s looking bleak. This season is a write off, and “if” we survive the next season is where the rebuild begins. Onwards and upwards. Keep right on. Ect Ect.
The normally heroically prolific Paul Carter hasn’t commented on this thread, oddly. As I’m sure you’re all missing his wit and erudition I’ll try and recreate what I think he’d say under the circumstances.
“Great game today, loved it! All those naysayers who stayed away, you missed an absolute thriller! End to end stuff and definitely got my money’s worth. Shouted myself hoarse and I’m still pinching myself that Blues are lucky enough to have a manager as gifted as Lee Clark!
He’s so much better than Chris Hughton, who was far too hidebound and intellectually invested in traditional concepts like ‘organisation’, ‘coherence’ and ‘man-management’ for my liking. Would Hughton have played the kids when there was literally no one else left? I doubt it, so you have to credit Lee for being so brave in picking the only players available to him. I love Lee. He’s my hero.
So many positives to take from the game, most of all that we’re lucky enough to have a manager as amazing as Lee (we’re on first name terms you know, don’t you wish you were as connected as me fellow Bluenoses?)
Couldn’t fault the selection or tactics, Lee got it spot on again. Defensively I thought we absolutely immense. He was also completely vindicated in publicly humiliating Zigic and making him unsellable to anyone who was thinking in putting in a bid for him, you could just tell from the response of the players yesterday that the decision has definitely got them all on side and the big man was hardly missed. I am completely confident that Lee’s actions will be vindicated in the long run, like everything Lee has done so far this season.
Can’t wait for Sheffield Wednesday, on the evidence of this performance it’s going to be an absolute cracker! Counting down the days until Lee and his superbly well organised charges go into battle again! Premier League here we come, and it’s all thanks to my mate Lee. What a guy!”
Oh diddums has Pauls upset you, as opposed to your pathetic rants that praise the players when we win, and blame Clark when we lose. I know who’s comments I’d rather read!
I’m sure you would rather read Paul’s comments.
But that says rather more about you than it does me.
And I wouldn’t say ‘upset’ by Paul. More bewildered. And slightly amused. Considering he goes to all the games (did you know he goes to all the games by the way) one would hope that his analysis would be a bit sharper than it is.
I entirely agree with you,,,,,,other sites have special area,s for their favourite contributors ,,,,AJ could you not arrange to do this for the P.C Appreciation Society ?,,,,,then those who can have an intelligent exchange of opinion from the comfort of our armchairs can do so and read what you have discovered without hysterical outbursts from those who disagree with anything that disagrees with their own opinion
Prewarblue – there is only one person on this site who gets special treatment for their views and his name is above the door…
If you don’t like a particular commenter’s comments… don’t read them
CLARK OUT!
Very good, mambo.. Funny and hits the spot..
Great Stuff. Nice post. Definately Clark Out
Bravo. I have chuckled away reading this. Spot on. Probably the most comical post I’ve ever read on here.
Mambo, i think you need to stop drinking mate, your becoming kinda embarrassing. I have never read one reasonable statement from you not once, you just come here to be an ass. But if it gets you off and makes you feel good carry on as long as you know that your being ridiculous. You can disagree with Paul all you like, but this kinda comment speaks volumes about you as a man, or old lady i know not which. Paul makes intelligent comment which is your right to disagree with, but posting in this way being an ass just tells me at least how seriously to take you, not at all.
And as for your backslappers and chums who really find you funny, i wonder if you guys used to do errands for the school bully. If you disagree with Paul then argue it out like men and not little boys. Im sure paul can take a reasoned argument, what is he supposed to say to that, grow up guys huh.
James, if you read it again I’m sure you’ll note that there is a massive tongue-in-cheek element to the post. If you don’t find it amusing then fair enough but it might be best to let Paul fight his own battles as you’re in danger of sounding like a Paul Carter disciple.
James, this could go on all day but let me point you in the direction of a comment by Paul this very day:
“It’s becoming apparent that this blog is home to a fair few filth fans maquerading as Blues and helping the antis in their quest. You make good bed partners.”
So I ask you, who is it dishing out the abuse on here? And don’t you think its ironic that you are accusing me of acting like a school bully when that is precisely Paul’s MO during every single debate on here?
If you don’t like what I wrote I can’t change that, but I was poking fun at Paul’s pomposity using his own rhetorical style. If its caused so much aggravation I can only assume its because I’ve touched a raw nerve.
Some of us are getting tired of being accused of being Villa fans simply because we have no wish to be cheerleaders for a singularly inept manager. If you want reasoned debate, then you and your mates need to stop throwing insults around like confetti. If you don’t want that debate, fine. But expect people to react the way they have in response.
Oh, and repeating the same mantras over and over and over and over and over again really does not constitute “intelligent comment”.
The final point you make is the one which pains me the most bud, as a blues fan there are possibly a handful of occasions In which I can say we’ve been throughly outplayed or embarassed at St Andrews & two of these occasions have been this season, given that we lost to Notts Forest @ home last yr the players left the field to applause and in some sections a standing ovation, I honestly can’t remember seeing anything like that after a home WIN this season, fortress St Andrews had become a poisinous and venemous place to be, granted @ the beginning of the season the board issue was still there but the level of performances, the seemingly inept tactics the manager continues to persue and the now overused excuses can’t continue, I’d like to see Clarky do the honourable thing & walk away, heck it may help him get a decent managerial gig in the future but if he doesn’t I’m @ least hoping he’s on this 1yr rolling contact type deal as so we can not renew it come the end of the season & go again with a new man in charge next season
Dan – he is on a 1 year rolling deal but I think you miss how it works.
A 1 year rolling contract ALWAYS has a year left to go on it. It’s “renewed” every day – which means we have to pay off a year’s worth of deal to get rid of him… hence we can’t afford it.
Oh blooming heck, thanks for the info bud, I did indeed have that all wrong, how on earth do we solve the Clarky as manager issue now then?? Fear we missed out chance when Bpool looked at him
How about sacking him for his ‘ unprofessional outburst against Zigic’ IF the board didn’t sanction the statements he’s released (though they probably did), it appears he won’t let it lie.
One statement was enough, shouldn’t keep raking it up in every interview.
Completely agree, Pannu has the ideal opportunity to sack him for his continued unprofessional behaviour and turning our beloved club into a laughing stock. Mr Pannu is a lawyer and he should be trawling through the termination clauses to see if he can get rid of him and his mates for zero cost. There are senior professionals (Stephen Carr?) within the club who could step up to an interim management role and Pannu should pusue that low cost route until the end of the season. If we are really are that desperate for cash then we need a short term plan to cut costs and stay in the league. Getting rid of non effective management overheads is preferable to getting rid of players.
It must be getting bad if we are looking for excuses like that to get rid of the manager. That is unprofessional.
That sais, I think we need to take the plunge and say quite simply that Lee Clark has not been what we hoped he would be and terminate his contract. Pay him his severance pay and let that be the end of it.
All this, we cant afford to sack him is rubbish. We cant afford to keep him is more liker it. He is becoming a liability not just on the pitch but publicly in the press as well.
Those who say we cannot afford to sack Lee Clark. Are the then suggesting he is going to be with us forever. If so then I do not intend being the one man and his dog watching us on a cold Tuesday night in non league football
If Wes Thomas is the standard Clark is going to sign in the summer when 15 players are out of contract, then we will be down next year even if we escape this time round.
Clark said Zigic’s laziness had to be clamped down upon as other players took exception to him getting away with it, but it seems many of them joined him today in sympathy.
I agreed with Lee Clark’s decision regarding Zigic, but to then witness a display like that the next day is hugely embarrassing, which has now made his position as manager untenable, if it wasn’t already. When you choose to make an example of a player in public you have to ensure the rest of the squad are behind you, if not then you are in big trouble. I fear a similar situation here to that of Phil Brown after dressing down his Hull players on the pitch at Man City, where he lost the dressing room after that and barely won another game. If Clark has lost the respect of the dressing room, then he has to go immediately to give us a chance of staying up.
There wasn’t a single positive to take from that game.Inept,clueless and out of their depth.Ufortunately that applied to the manager as well as the team.We gave the ball away far to much and when we didn’t have it we ball watched far to much.Gomis was dreadful and Robinson was desperate.Hall did nothing again and Burke,Davies and Butland aside i wouldn’t give any of them above 3 out of 10…Sheffield Wednesday has become the dreaded 6 pointer and lose that and it will lokk very bleak.
The next 2 games will decide our fate. I don’t think i have ever seen such a poor performance in a Blues shirt (Robinson) since the days of Dean Peer and the like. LC has just simply lost the plot now. The Bournemouth forward is a terrible player at best. Sorry Chaps but i fear the worst now and I can’t even be bothered to go down on Tuesday. I have even declined a freebee in the box at Hull from my best customer on the 2nd of March because it is all to painful at the moment.
Do you think Robinson might have over exerted himself in training?
henribloo – now that raised a chuckle ! Glad to see some good old blue humour creeping in. KRO henribloo
One positive was how well Hancox and Redmond linked up in the last 15-20 minutes once Clark realised Hall and Robbo weren’t at it. Yes we conceded a 4th but whilst chasing a consolation and in that final period we looked far more positive.
I just wish we were playing our young talent from the off, rather than other teams kids and guys that are clearly on their last legs (in career terms that is).
Ziggy:
I do agree that if players don’t pull their weight that they should not start but deal with it behind closed doors. The guy should have at least been on the bench because he would have given Watfords back line something different to think about because it was too easy against the front 2 today, although the guys up front need service to be able to do anything at all.
Lovenkrands kept dropping too deep because of the lack of service which left Thomas living on scraps & on his own. He has pace so could cause trouble if he’s given the right service, although his shooting today left a lot to be desired.
Clark, either walk or start playing the young, hungry and talented crop that are chomping at the bit to put on the shirt, the fans will appreciate them far more than the dross we saw today.
Against Sheffield Wed:
Butland
Caddis
Davies
Caldwell/Ibanez
Hancox
Burke
Reilly
Spector
Redmond
Zig
King (if fit)
Keep the ball on the floor, attack the full backs, get in the crosses and cut backs for the forwards.
It’s true, the best form of defence is attack as Watford taught Clark today and we have young, homegrown players that will give their all for the team, they will make mistakes but they will learn from them, they won’t learn whilst sat on the bench. Use Robbo, Hall and Thomas as cover start the players that we need to build the team around next season.
Today was an embarrassment but goals 1, 2 & 3 came from the right winger being given too much room by Robbo and that was because he was scared of the guys pace.
Please correct these selection errors now.
Last thing…. Any news on Fahey returning?
PP, if you’re reading this, then I call upon you to please do your duty now.
If it was just the poor choice of coaches and players, the poor team selection and tactics and the hopelessly inept media performances, you could delay things until the end of the season. But, the public character assassination of Nicola Zigic MUST be the last straw. In our fight for survival, LC is now a huge liability. The cost of failing to take immediate action may be far greater than whatever pay-off is required. There is no shortage of better out-of-work managers and Blues deserve MUCH better. KRO
Almajir ,
I realise not everyone will support your assessment and it will be interesting to read comments from the Clark fan club.I fully endorse your views but would add that Clarks backroom staff are also responsible for the overhaul performance of the team and yet Clark continues to protect them.I think this reflects his immaturity and poor decision making which will probably cost him his job.
I get know pleasure in saying I predicted that Clark was out of his depth because its probably too late in the season to do anything about the situation and I also accept that the financial constraints prevent us from sacking him.
Sorry to say that unless he resigns we are probably stuck with him and survival in this league will be a blessing .
Can he achieve this?
I have my doubts!
GULP !
I’m an automatic defender. An automatic challenger to criticism. About Blues.
This is hard.
Ziggs is not an issue..imo.
He rarely comes off the bench before 70 minutes, and without King even if he had come on at 46 minutes, I don’t think it would have been a game changer.
Watford are the BEST team I’ve seen at St Andrews all season. They were worth my portion of my season ticket. Fluid, united, consise and ALL on the same page.
And 90% of them speak the same language. Culturally and mentally.
Can I take issue with this blog. OK?
To systematically destruct individual players is something I’ve not seen you do before.
The term is “SLAG”..and you did it.
I’ve never seen you do that before and I’m pretty much shocked.
On the base of that destruction you build an argument that the manager must go!
Incredible logic.
You slate some players as useless and didn’t perform ergo the manager must go.
Mate, we are all blues and we are all hurting.
(For myself I’m still trying to figure out Barnsley…. :-) )
Mate, we are all blues and we are all hurting.
You really should have slept on this one, before you blogged.
Slagging players and THEN, trying to connect that to your new stance of “Clark OUT”
is contradictorary.
You should have slept on this before you blogged, imo.
I know where you are coming from, I felt the same anger at the players in the TF and was truly ambivalent to JC.(Never EVER happened before)
Anyway, I think you are wrong to jump ship about Clark..and as a useless twat of a public defender…I will stick by Clark.
And Pannu.. :-)
I’m not brave enough to stand against the mob who have been handed the pitch forks by the words in this blog. Respect to Al always but i agree with Letsby on this. Too quick and even if valid, wont this just pour more fuel on the fire. Even if your right Al, what good will this do when we all know the situation cannot be changed. I hear the mob coming down the road, but i never thought you would be giving out the pitchforks Al, I’m surprised too. Opinion fine OK respect that, but this is a little too far for me and can only make things worse. Not saying don’t call a spade a spade, but reflect first at least. We all know whats coming next. I expected a bad result soon, but was prepared to take it as i know were still were we are and nothing can change that as we all know. I know i will get slated too and my defending will be ridiculed and of course encouraged by this post it will be rampant. Lets see how it is answered by the team and the management. Cant say i agree with this approach. as i said im not brave enough to stand against the mob that’s coming and will stay out of it, but watch what happens next and tell me that will help us..
A well considered reply. But would you honestly be upset if Clark were to resign today?
Good question ian. Well its a bad day at the office, id still wanna give him a season.
A season? Too late by then.
Sorry but i think your totally and utterlywrong Lee Clark has not got a clue tactically and he has no man management skills.
All this was discovered by Huddersfield and plenty of their fans posted on verious sites after we landed him.
If we stick with him were relegated
Given that Clark bought 5 of the 11 that started and selects the team and tactics do you not think that Clark is at least partially to blame?
His bought in bodies to fill gaps and hasnt had the power to do much other than that having no transfer money. If you wanna reply with he had the same team as last season to play with, well your right minus about 6 of them, injuries, one being on leave for personal reasons and some exited so that statement is untrue. His responsible of course but he hasn’t exactly had the luxury of bringing in just who he wants has he and Carr, fahey, Beausjoir (cant spell it) among others which i cant even recall without looking it up are just not there to pick. His done his best without money, his bought in bodies to fill gaps so i think that has to be considered in your judgments.
Beausejour?
Beausejour was sold during Hughton’s reign…and Hughton did fine without him.
Stand corrected on that then, but point remains, its not the same team if many of them are still injured and on compassionate leave etc, and he wasnt in a position to just go and buy who he liked, he needed cover, he got cover thats all he could do at that time.
As regards the Zigic incident well this quote says it all for me when people say it should be kept in house
From lee Clark “Well, I’ve kept it in house because this was the fourth time I’ve had to have this conversation with him. There’s only so much you can keep in house before you have to go down another route.”
I think its apparent from the fact the man wont budge on his huge wage that he doesn’t care about our situation and is somewhat extracting the urine. capped by the fact that nobody else really wants him which speaks volumes. How do you not drop him?
James, I’ll stand against the mob… f..k em, Paul is right, the majority only voice their opinion when it’s negative, then slagging Clark, with terms like get back down pit…. yet get all precious when someone gives them a bit of it back. You have people on here that are too thick to understand what a 12 month rolling contract is, and sheep that still think millions has been siphoned off to Hong Kong. Most of these muppets never said a word in support when we were undefeated in 5, so yes f..k em. As for his stance against Zigic, if it’s something they don’t like, they are actually saying Clark is lying. yes you chas, you’re pathetic!
Isn’t that part of the point? We were undefeated in five, getting a bit of momentum, then, two days before the game, Clark slags off our most dangerous player in public. Simultaneously telling Watford that they had no defence worries, alienating Zigic, dividing the crowd when it needs to be united and killing any postivity around the club. Just what was Clark thinking he’d achieve by doing that other than by primping himself as The Big Man?
If the players were annoyed by Zigic they’d’ve shown in their individual efforts that they backed the manager. But Robinson had an off-day, Hall had an off-day, Caddis had an off-day, even Butland dropped a clanger. That suggests to me the players were not backing Clark…
No mate! I go home and away and i want him out! Basic match tactics ie one up front against the better sides packing the midfield is acceptable home and away allowing the midfield to be overun for an hour without changing the system isn’t! playing no strikers at home while all our goals in three experienced strikers are left on the bench is an absolute disgrace!
I’m not the mob! Stop being blind to the problem! worst manager for over 20 years! Don’t know his arse from his elbow! Fahey (needs a full pre-season my arse) Spector fit mullins fit i could go on!
Blue in Spain have you seen Jake Jervis’s twitter account ref Ziggy and LC. He clearly states that in his opinion LC is a Liar. Why do you believe LC’s comments? Is it just because he is the manager?
Why are you so certain Mr Jervis is telling the truth?
I’m not I just believe that Clark manipulated the media to cover his short fallings. He managed to deflect the criticism which should be directed at him onto Zigic. It worked hence the crowd turning against each other during the game. Instead of the vitriol being directed at him it was directed at a player who was not even in the squad. I don’t believe what he says about Fahey either. He is unprofessional and it was quite clear on Saturday that his players have little faith in his leadership and professionalism.
His constant criticism of his players does little for team morale. He is out of his depth and should do the decent thing and resign.
Jervis comes across as a sulky big kid that could not take the truth, he wasn’t good enough!
So you say he should have played 4-2-3-1, or 4-5-1 as most of the ‘supporters’ would have seen it, he wouldn’t have been slaughtered for that at all! As for the lone striker, who would you have played in that position, as either of the two forwards available are incapable, in my opinion, of that role. Only King could have carried that off, and he’s injured. As for Zigic, if it is the 4th time Clark has had that conversation, firstly he was right to take it public, and secondly Zigic is a disgrace, and he has gone way down in my estimation!
Would someone remind me. What has Zigic done?
I agree about the Zigic situation, he had to put him in his place, who does he thing he is Messi??? What I disagree with you about is not having the players for 1 up front, well acorrding to LC, Thomas was bought in on loan because he was “versitial”…. Perhaps he is but not that we’ve seen? He is a poor mans Jerome….. It is time for him to go and Dickie Beale the job.
James,
A very good response with a different approach.
Zigic however has publicly stated that “he always gives his best during training sessions”a total contridiction to Clarks verion of events -so who do you believe.?One thing is for certain going public on personal matters in any business is wrong and Clarks irresponsibility together with a shocking home performance has further angered and alienated the majority of fans at a time when things stated to pick up.
He can be accused of being nieve if you wish but I think his tantrum was immature and stupid.
Clark!
I think he meant Clark’s.
This is where it gets tricky Art. I agree that in general, things should be kept in house. But at the same time what happens then if he quietly drops him. Well i think we both know then its gonna be “muppet why dont you play Zigic” etc so he has to go somewhat public. If im honest with you Art i believe Clark simply becuz i dont see why he would say it if it wasn’t true, but i can see why Zigic would say what he said even if he doesn’t train well. His never going to say yer for sure guys i don’t care just give me my wages is he. I personally don’t think Zigic is half as good a player as Zigic thinks he is and frankly, if we could get shot of him (controversial i know) i think we wouldn’t hurt from it. I admit i don’t rate him much and 50k a week don’t train hard yet nobody getting mad at him, and i really don’t think his so precious really.
It’s actually Clark’s.
What the eff are you on about, you asked who do you believe I said Clark! Apologies accepted!
Blue in Spain. Think yourself lucky that you don’t have to sit through the dross that we have had to endure this season under Lee Clark and Pannu’s leadership. If you did you would surely understand that it is time for Mr. Clark to do the honourable thing and resign.
We were well beaten by a very good team who are likely to be promoted to the prem league the way they are going. Deal with it and get things into some sort of perspective. Survival is our priority and a win vs Sheff Wed changes everything
Exactly right. Perspective. Let’s not get suicidal about being beaten by a very good team! Clark out? Remember, Blues are in some sh1t, which led to a half decent manager being appointed, with a decent squad but with (seemingly) poor morale and a fanbase with evidently fragile morale! Not a recipe for success. We all want better for our club but can only demand that those associated with BCFC do their best. LC is doing just that. If Zig isn’t then he needs to be put in his place. Publically? Ideally not. But how many questions would LC have answered in the coming weeks relating to Zigs omission from the squad? Invent an injury to protect him and risk upsetting the professionals who care about the club. Clark has every right to demand maximum effort from his players and it is all we can demand of Clark. When things allow it, sure, get a better manager in. For now, get behind the one we’ve got. Strong support from the terraces will go a long way to keeping us up.
KRO
NAl you don’t usually jump to conclusions like this, before yesterday you talked about some decent results and half decent performances…
I agree yesterday was woeful, & I walked out a few mins early (more to avoid the chorus of boos to be honest).
Something that stuck in my mind yesterday was my cousin, who was taking a game in for the first time in 3 years, he kept commenting on how the atmosphere used to be brilliant, the ground would be rocking… Yesterday he said he was just bored… And granted the result & performance didn’t help, however as fans it never used to matter about the performance, we still gave it our all.
Now, everyone just seems to be sat waiting…. For what, I don’t know… If you do try & have a shout people think you’re mad… For example, yesterday I couldn’t stand the refs actions. Constantly talking to Watford players, patting then on the back etc… So I blew my top!! Years gone by people would havejoined in , given him some stick!! Yesterday people just laughed & joked at my expense… It’s sad down st Andrew’s at the moment…. And what we don’t need is a blog like this that usually looks for any positive, to start to join the bandwagon of moans and groans.
I agree it was a poor performance, I agree clark got it wrong… But with all your investigations etc you should know clark isnt going anywhere… Not until any sale is sorted out!!
Clark has never been the right choice. He proved this again with his public outburst that should have been dealt with in-house. As for Zigic at least he turned up sober for the training session.
Why who didn’t?
Is this kind of slander allowed now?
Paul, all sort of bullshit that has a go at Clark appears to be allowed, Some idiot called Tony said get back down pit, racist stereo typing, allowed! If people don’t like Clark, the owners or whoever, there is no requirement for insults, and if you do insult them, don’t whine like sissy girls when someone insults you.
I have noticed racism creeping in on here a bit lately something about the chinese last week as well, now snide comments inferring Clarks a drunk. They’re Villa mate gotta be.
Staggering, genuine lol moment, must have lost something in translation.
Spot on!
I agree with all of this post. Clarks team selections have been very poor. A draw would have been a good result yesterday. A good manager knows his teams limitations as well as their strengths. Gomis and Hall have been continually poor for weeks. Spector, O’Reilly, Redmond and Zigic should have played yesterday. To go two up front yesterday against a team that had won 8 away from home was crazy. Clark says its about your performance on the pitch if you play well you stay in yet Hall and Gomis have been poor for weeks and Thomas is just not good enough. Its not hard to recognise this; a good manager would anyway.
We simply do not have the luxury at the moment to drop one of our better players. Apparently he has spoken to Zigic a few times before about his attitude in training behind closed doors. Clearly he is totally incapable of motivating Zigic then. His decision making seems emotional rather than logical . As he could not motivate Zigic in training he got annoyed and told him off in public. A bit pathetic really. Blues really need Wolves to continue their poor form otherwise it could be a very uncomfortable few months. KRO.
Whoever we picked yesterday, whatever formation we would have been beaten by the best team I’ve seen at St Andrews for some time. Lets be honest the defeat has made an awful lot of people happy as it played straight into the hands of their agenda. These people disappeared whilst we were playing good football and going unbeaten but they were there in the shadows lurking like villa scum just waiting to slag us off. What they fail to do though is put up an argument of what we could have done different which is pretty much nothing. Sack Clark and whoever comes in inherits the same low standard squad and will have the same problems.
A unique thing happened yesterday which I’ve never seen before. As we went 3-0 down predictably the morons start singing for Zigic roundly put in their place by thousands of Blues booing, see we don’t like anyone taking the p*ss out of our club. So boos and songs for the same player at the same time, never seen that before.
Surprised at you Dan really surprised joining the antis but there you go. Maybe you thought we were gonna compete with Watford but I didn’t. We know Thomas is not up to it, we knew that when we signed him he was just another body. Robinson had a terrible game and gave away 2 goals which didn’t help, Hall was ineffectual but we know these players are average at best that’s why they’re here. Twas the wrong game at the wrong time for Lee but I still fully support him and the club and especially his stance on Zigic who I hope doesn’t play again til he makes a public apology. I notice he hasn’t denied Clarks claims and why cos he probably doesn’t even care that much that he has to.
Onwards and upwards, the antis are all sitting around with semis hoping we’ll lose against Sheffield and Posh so they can really have a go. I’ll be at both games doing what Blues fans do best, supporting their team whatever the current crisis. Relegation, administration whatever I’ll still be there supporting not booing/whinging/moaning and backing the club with my money rather than never going down and revelling in the misery. It’s becoming apparent that this blog is home to a fair few filth fans maquerading as Blues and helping the antis in their quest. You make good bed partners.
Is it really, genuinely beyond you to grasp the idea that not everyone who disagrees with your assessment of the club’s current situation is a Villa fan?
Is it really, genuinely that difficult for you to imagine that people might just DISAGREE with you but still be Blues fans?
Hi Paul,
Brief statement from ZIgic taken from the Mail.
In response to the managers claims “I always give the max”.
I read this to be a denial-don’t you?
Always two sides to the story-hey!
So someones lying, and with your anti Clark agenda, you automatically believe Zigic! Well I believe Clark, as even with other managers Zigic seems to take an age to get over injury niggles, or does he just not fancy a fight!
Bluei in Spain.
Please show me where I have stated I believe Zigic’s version.
I don’t know who’s right or wrong here but I do know that Clark handled the entire situation badly .
That’s my point and why do you believe Clark’s version -where’s your evidence?
The evidence I have about Clark’s lack of ability is overwhelming and is based on his results and performance’s and are you ever able to understand its not personal.?
You have evidence of Clarks overwhelming lack of ability! What a load of horseshit!
Clark is a loser. With one, desperate article he’s created a civil war amongst Bluenoses. Dan’s on the money, the team performance shows how much confidence they have in their manager, and his ability to manage, let alone plan a team strategy.
How many humiliations does it take to wake up and smell the coffee?
Art mate, his on 50k a week. Do you think for one second his gonna admit he dont give a fart, course not. Whose got the most to lose. Zigic isnt going to admit to something that would get him hung.
James, has Zigic ben fined for his ‘Misbehaviour ‘..? Most players would have been ..
Chas, I’m sure i will be corrected if im wrong, but i would of thought that if he fined him for not working hard in training, the PFA would have something to say about that. Late for training maybe he can as thats probably within the rules, but a manager assessing that a player ant working hard enough is possibly (and i admit i dont know im guessing) something he doesn’t have the power to do, but drop him he can.
Paul,
Do you honestly believe that Blues supporters want to see their team lose and why do you keep calling those who’s opinions differ from yours filth.
It’s very offensive!
You are not the voice of reason, you are too narrow minded. I think I understand why you like Clark, you give the impression that like him you are also uneducated, unintelligent, inarticulate, tactless and basically a bit dim. Clarks behaviour over the last few days demonstrates he has these traits and that is why he has lost the respect of key players like Zigic. Your continual posts criticising those who see things differently to you and blindly following a manager who is incapable demonstrates that you are exactly the same as Clark ….. a bit dim.
If it is true, the way Zigic behaved is indefensible but the way Clark has handled it, airing his dirty laundry in public, is embarrassing and in my opinion worse and he should be punished for that or at least retain some dignity and resign. I am not an anti for thinking that, I have assessed the situation and taken a balanced view on it, you should try it some time.
Well put. I don’t think anyone on here that manages people could stand up and say that Clark’s behaviour was good professional conduct. It is frankly embarrassing and Clark has made himself a laughing stock and brought unnecessary bad attention to our club. If it is true then it rightly needed to be addressed but privately. I fear massive damage has been done to the clubs morale and his managerial reputation.
MJT, First off mate Paul isnt any of those things, and your right we have discord among us but i dont think that that collection of insults aimed at Paul was worthy of you.
However saying that i think im finding it hard to understand how do you drop and discipline a player quietly. First thing that happens is the many jump up and down turning green screaming “why dont he play Zigic”. For that reason alone he had to go public and state why, isnt it obvious.
James, I don’t know Paul personally so I can’t say that he is or isn’t any of those things all I’m saying is that I feel that is what comes across in his posts, very subtle difference but I take your point about them being not worthy of me so I retract them.
I do believe Lee Clark is all of them and it comes across alot clearer, he has publicly criticised the players as a whole in the past saying ‘they need to take a look at themselves’ and this time he has singled out one player publicly. I don’t condone Zigic if what is alleged is true (we will never truly know), but I think a better manager or dare I say a leader, would not have gone to the press, they would have dealt with it internally, Clark has not been able to do that and that for me is a problem. You can’t have a manager who is publicly at odds with his team, it simply doesn’t work.
The other question to be asked is why is Zigic or any other player not putting in effort? If it is true I would respect Zigic a lot less perhaps not at all anymore. However, I feel the route cause is Clark as he doesn’t command the respect of anyone for the reasons I mentioned before meaning he is not inspirational, he provides no direction and is not a leader. We could debate what Clark should have done ’til the cows come home but for me this situation should never have arisen in the first place and then Clark made a bad situation a lot lot worse.
Mjt, I dont like to speculate but were all guilty of it in some form or another. If Zigic isnt putting in the effort then i dont personally care if he likes Lee Clark or not, his being paid by the supporters who are the ones who cough up the dosh for his hugely over rated services. I really dont care what Zigic feels about Clark, His a well paid professional who is evidently taking the piss.
James
Could the manager not have taken Zigic to one side and said that his contribution in training had not been good enough for him to be considered for the team on Saturday
As manager I am concerned that you may be unfit so I am having your fitness assessed and if that proves that there is no injury then I will put in place additional training to get you up to speed so I can consider you for selection
The manager can then point out to the fans that Zicic was not playing because of injury concerns
I think thats fair comment BCFC 1955 apart from he has took him aside 3 times before. I think its possible, and i only say possible that in Clarks eyes, the defiance and him getting away with it would have other players feeling if Zigic can get away with it so can i. Bit like a factory manager. First time you have a quiet word second time you take them in the office, third time you give a warning, 4th time you know they are taking the piss and as he cant be sacked, its the next best thing.
Heaven forbid that we should compete with Watford.
The fact is clark and zigic are not going anywhere. Another truth is that we are never going to win against the top teams because we are bottom half of the table material. So we are need to back clark, zigic and everyone else to stay up or sell up… Then we can change the lot !
i said before, football is a results based business. wolves,forest,bristol and barnsley have all sacked their managers – how is lee clark still a manager ??
fact – he inherited a squad that finished in the play off’s last season
fact – the board allowed him to add players. lovenkrands,ambrose,mullens on paper are decent players
fact – when you lose at home again and again the natives get restless
this man is totally out of his depth and tactically inept and a poor man manager.
i wish him no harm but HE MUST BE SACKED BEFORE WE ARE RELEGATED
All those teams are financially better us than us, we simply can’t afford to sack Clark. Would be interesting to know how much it would cost tho
Sorry, better off than us!
This is one the problems with football.
FACT
Easy to be an expert and pander to the masses after a game. Clark was 100 per cent right over Zigic and truth is the team isn’t good enough. When Clark can only sign players like Thomas and has to rely on Robinson we are going to be in big big trouble next season if we still exist that is
We didnt have to sign players like Thomas..We could have leftr them where they were..Clark is a bad manager, We were warned about Clark by many Huddersfield Fans when he signed..They were right..
We would have lost this game even if Zigic had played, however Clarks premeditated outburst to the press and public on Zigic means the next time he decides to play him the fans will be split. Some will boo some wil cheer most will look on amazed at what is going on.
Too many people go from one extreme to the other. We win and all of a sudden it’s the playoffs for us. We lose and it’s relegation, sack LC and Zigic should be in the team and LC was out of order.
Well I am not an LC fan but he has been going up in my estimation recently albeit he got it wrong with his team selection yesterday. Having said that lets face it Watford have better quality players than us as they have exploited a loophole in the rules.
Prior to the Watford game we were 5 games unbeaten. We still have more points than games played and plenty more crucial games to play 2 of which are coming up shortly. I would rather win those games.
LC’s stance on Zigic was about time as he has been taking the proverbial for some time. Zigic is at best an impact player. Personally, I think he is a big lump and no way justifies his salary. What is worrying is the guy enjoys cult status for scoring in a cup final and this seems to grant him impunity in some fans eyes which his agent has exploited.
What is more worrying for me is despite knowing that we have a poor team and a situation we are stuck with fans are turning on each other.
The Zigic situation has clearly caused a huge rift. Lets just try to survive first instead of turning on each other instead of the opposition? Is that possible? LC took the stance so I can only assume that
he is the manager and its job to make those calls?
Absolutely Evesham, spot on.
LC and Blues were always onto a hiding for nothing for this game. Our last few games have seen us unbeaten and playing fairly well. This Zigic issue is neither here nor there and if he had played yesterday, would the result have been any different?? Of course not. Watford were solid, structured, fluid and confident. We could not cope and the result reflected this. Hall and Robinson were poor but I believe that Hall plays as per any informal agreement with West Ham and as Redmond is the only cover, LC does not have much choice and is not in any position to change things. Robinson is filling a gap for us on a short-term basis and maybe Hancox will get the nod fairly shortly. We were never gonna live up to last year’s heroics even if CH had stayed. Might have been a main reason as to why he left. Even though much of the team was being dismantled then, we were still able to bring in King, Burke, Pablo, Elliott etc., and they made a difference. We still had Beausajour, Mutch, Ridgewell and Carr was fit at the start as well. All positions that have been a problem for us this season. This was always gonna be a transitional season for us and not many wanted to know, LC did. Can anyone say he has ever talked the club or fans down and not spoken about how “big and great” we are and how he wishes to achieve things with us?? He should still be given until the summer when he can start clearing out those he does not want and hopefully getting a few players in that can do a decent job for us. But of course this will be determined by those above him in the hierachy. Thankfully the Sheff Wed game is not to far away and we can put things right and I believe we will win.
how can you say we look continually vulnerable to these results? We have just been unbeaten in 5 games and have played well. Do you watch us away at all?
With an approximate 8 players on loan from Udinese, 2 from Granada, 1 from Standard Liege and 1 from Chelsea (their stats), a collection of their own players – their ‘own’ Murray and our boy Deeney. They have a fantastic set up and lets get one thing straight …they intend to win. Now, we are all aware that the Brummie Troy Deeney netted a spot on and well deserved brace, and they simply did the business on the pitch. So, if they are placed in their respective positions ( what seemed to be a 4-4-2) and believe me, they ‘commanded’ their territory in defense and midfield, then they are listening and sticking to what they do in training and behind the scenes technical talks. They are listening to Zola. That was his team yesterday, picked and placed. Forget the international rules v national rules, they have exercised the loans and transfer opportunities very wisely and to their own advantage …and made it work. Zola will be offered credit for his teams performance yesterday and he knows it his responsibility to get points, yet his players still have a job to do …but under him. He reports to the owner.
Now, for the love of Christ and The Holy Mary herself ..why can’t some people see it when it comes to Lee Clark? It is his head on the block, he reports to Pannu, he is responsible for points, he is responible for making the training work on the pitch. Owners care about points and star players. Forgetting our financial constraints, LC’s job is to get us points. His other roles come into scrutiny on how he sets his team up, trains them, fields them, supports them and achieves success and confidence.
Is it on his shoulders if we are winning? Yes it is, he put the work, tactics & confidence in to achieve the score sheet.
Is it on his shoulders if we are losing? Yes it is, the workload and tactics aren’t getting through and are not effective on the pitch, so his score sheet is under more scrutiny.
Strikers / goalscorers will always be heros when it goes well, and thats good for the owners and the board, and bring atmosphere and crowds.
It’s a no brainer and it always will be, but the only excuse the LC supporters have is that we are in financial turmoil and need investement quick. To which I agree, but that argument does cloud the issue of immediate ability with what we have right now.
Hear, Hear !
Im having to google that. So no mitigation’s. Zola has got the players he wants and loophole or not (not going into that) he has them so yes his in a great position. Clark, not so lucky and you think it shouldn’t make any difference, or have i misread the post.
On a second read Paulo i didnt need google i just needed new glasses, point taken.
Zola was given a bunch of kids by his owner that were not good enough for his other clubs. He put that side together from nothing in the same amount of time that Clark has had at Blues.
..and that Carlos, is the scary thing.
What a good point. The one difference is the “owner” gave Zola the players so surely LC, who bought his, should be performing better…… LC needs to either go on a coaching course…. or go. The difference from last years top 4 is less than people think:
Butland – an improvement on Myhill
Caddis – or Carr/Ramage, people have raved about Caddis so on a par with Carr but better than Ramage
Robbo – Ok Murphy a lot better however Murphy is injured
Gomis/Mullins (although Gomis played last year) – N’Daw/Mutch (ok we miss those two)
Fahey or Hall???
What we have lost is a bit of stength in depth, however LC has bought badly and is why he has had to rely on the kids, which to his credit he has kept in when (or had) but now most of the experienced players fit back to the same players so why are we surprised when we get stuffed? Come on Lee put the kids back in please.
Apologies – 2 weeks ago I said that I would stick my neck out and say we would go unbeaten in February. We were playing much better than previous and looked like we were up for the fight hence the unbeaten run we were on. Watford were quicker, slicker and everyone seemed to be on the same wave length. Apart from the Thomas effort that curled and sailed over, I can’t remember their keeper having a real save to make in the first half. Robbo was poor, Caddis wasn’t his usual self and Gomis, trying his hardest couldn’t pass water. If you want effort then Gomis is your man, If you want a bit more quality then I would have gone for Reilly. You can’t have Hall on the pitch just to put quality free kicks in the box so Nathan would have been the alternative. For me Lovenkrands game started when he was denied a penalty so for the last 15 he ran about like he had just come on as a sub. Was it a pen, I sit in Main stand block D and was waiting for the cross to come over so didn’t see the push. The only one for me that got any credit was Burke. We got what we deserved. On to Tuesday if I was to make changes, performance wise, Hancox, Nathan and Reilly start with Robbo, Hall and Gomis giving way. Clark has to make piece with Zigic and he has to start instead of Wes. How he makes his piece with big Zig I don’t know but we need him. How he gets them to play at a better tempo I am unsure but they have to. A very big week for Blues and supporters. KRO
A clean sheet would be nice for starters , followed by zigic apologising. , replace hall , gomis, Robinson. With. Redmond , hancox , Reilly Hey presto. 3pts. Tuesday. Kro.
Do you think Clark changed tactics when Zigic was dropped.. He did say the trainng session was based on him playing from the start.
Other than Burke and later Redmond we never looked a threat up front
I AGREE WITH AL I’M AFRAID AND THIS DEBATE IS NOT ABOUT THE MOB VERSUS THE INTELLECTUALS- IT IS ABOUT THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE STATUS QUO IS UNACCEPTABLE WITH L.C. AND THOSE WHO FEAR THAT THE UNKNOWN COULD BE WORSE.
WE GOT SPANKED,AT HOME AND IT HURT. THE REAL DECIDER IS ON TUESDAY WHEN 2 TEAMS OF ROUGHLY EQUAL BILLING WILL SHOW WHO HAVE THE MOST WILL TO STAY UP.
Tilton. We was beaten by a very good side and well beaten yes your right, so doesn’t that mean a little perspective should be applied on this one.
The fact is one year ago with almost the same strength squad we were going toe to toe with the other promotion chasers, this year we are going rapidly towards league one and all without the added burden of europen games
there one difference this year to last year and that is the manager and his back room team, this is fact
to call anyone who disagrees with the suggestion that the manager is great a villa fan is purile and shows sadly the level of IQ of some our supposed hardcore fans.. the best thing we can all do for our great club is continue the pressure for clark to realise sooner raher than later he isnt up to it, in any other financial cicrcumstance he would be beeen scacked by now and even his supporters must know that
i hope he plays at sensible team tuesday for what must his last stand, assuming king is out I would go for
Butland
Caddis Ibanez Davies Hancox
Burke Spector Reilly Redmond
Elloit ZIgic
For thomas please can someone drive him back to Bournemouth now!
Not the same squad as last year bullshine again…. How many players that started this time last year started yesterday?
Five of the starting eleven were players who would have been considered to have been potential starters last season:
Caldwell
Davies
Burke
Gomis
Elliott
One more ‘starter’ featured in the match, Redmond, taking the number of players used in yesterday’s game who were with us regularly last season to six – that’s not exactly a massive difference, we’re not talking ten completely new players here.
So if you were wages were cut by 45% thats ok then, as it’s not a massive difference!
Following on from a point raised earlier. Zigic takes a long time to recover from injuries.
Might it just be possible that being aware of this Zigic does not go into challenges in training in the thud and blunder way that the British expect players to, because he knows his main job is to be fit to play matches?
Clarke being a Brit through and through might see this as being lazy or lacking effort and go for the jugular rather than listen to what he sees as excuses.
I have seen Zigic do some stupid stuff on the pitch but I have never thought he wasn’t putting in a shift, and let’s be honest in our recent “good” run he was often the catalyst for our better performances.
As an aside I have just realised who Paul Carter is, he’s the bloke with the halo. With infallibility like his he should apply for the Pope’s job.
try getting the manager name right first, maybe you can be taken seriously. kro maybe your mixed up and you support WBA THEIR manager CLarke. KR0
Do you know the worst moment yesterday was walking down Stans steps after the game contemplating the drive back to Southampton (yes it is a long long road) and I picked up a tweet from Al – simply saying #clarkout. Up to that time, I always looked on OP as an impartial voice of the fans, stating facts, offering opinions (some I didnt always agree with) and providing clear analysis of the issue in point.
We wern’t actually awful yesterday – yes we had a 4-0 drubbing from a very good team but I saw quite a bit of effort from most of the lads, despondent at some poor reffing – stonewall penalty in the 2nd half – certainly far from the worse performance this season. I am a Clark neutral and sometimes he gets it wrong but he is still an apprentice, learning his trade with one hand tied behind his back. I do agree with the Ziggy stance if the facts are true – maybe he could have been a little more restrained but he is a Geordie after all.
As for the earlier attack on TVOR earlier in the thread – equally totally uncalled for – again I don’t always agree with Paul but he (like me and Al) are entitled to an opinion without getting slagged.
Get together lads – back the shirt and make some noise! KRO
Hear Hear, A true voice of reason!
Everybody read that? A guy who drives up from Southampton to watch his club.
I agree Tone, Dan was the last bloke I expected to turn and I also agree that for most of the first half we were the better team but Tone it doesn’t matter to these people. They enjoy it more when we lose, look at all the posts. Sure there are filth on here as well as antis but they all come together in the hope we lose against our relegation rivals in the next 2 games so they can really go to town.
I take my hat off to you for your support mate, tis a pleasure to post alongside you.
You are an ignotant person aren’t you Paul…… I’ll say this again SOME PEOPLE CAN’T AFFORD IT, SOME PEOPLE WORK, SOME PEOPLE ALSO DON’T GO BECAUSE THERE IS AN APATHY TO THE CLUB BECAUSE OF THE OWNERS. I don’t go as much as I used to because I CANT AFFORD IT….. Do you understand the country is in a recession???? My family has to eat. You sometimes make sense with your comments but mostly you are a stuck record…
Hmmmmm….because of course, Paul never slags anyone off! (and yes, I will be present at Stans on Tuesday night before we start with all that old pony again)
Please remind me, what did Zigic do?
Nothing… thats the problem!
Guys
I have said it many times (and it doesn’t take a genius) but Clark is an average manager who is from a tactical and man-management perspective naieve. I also went on record saying that we would drop out of this league given the nonsense with Panu and the Hong Kong connection allied to such a poor managerial team (and yes I include McWhynot). Given I have supported the club for 40 odd years I truly hope I am wrong and have to eat every last word. However if there is any chance of staying up we have to have continuity for the last few months of the season and this means keeping the manager. Hard to swallow I know but essential to my mind!
Best to all
Goody
Clark is a symptom of the poor governance of this club.
Promoted above his abilities , not previously good enough for League One let alone the Championship.
This week has shone a harsh light on his incompetence to man manage Zigic effectively , from the non substitution at Charlton , through his press conference, to match day yesterday.
The outcome of that incompetence was laid bare at 0-3 with the singing of Zigic name & the ensuing civil war.
Momentum is everything in football , after 5 games unbeaten there were green shoots,
what Clark has managed to do this week is trample all over hope & unity, & leave the Blues
on the cliff of League One football next season.
We will be Blues fans long after he has gone , so Mr Clark please do the right thing & go now not later.
I’ve supported LC all along but can fully accept the reaction of some fans after another dismal performance,although I think it was more down to there quality rather than our poor show, I don’t think Zigic would have altered the result but we will never know.
Fact is Clark is going nowhere so the best course of action is support him and the team until the end of the season, the boo boys will get there way when the new owners will have em out.
Surely being positive creating a good atmosphere and filling the ground is the only hope we have, how can some people not see that, I’m sure some fans are more interested in getting LC the sack and abusing each other on here than going to the match
On same squad as last year like for like
Butland for Myhill
Ambrose for Mutch
Caddis for Carr
Mullins for Ndaw
Lovenkrands for Huskipp
Hall for Townsend
The point is we replace those we lost with players you would expect to be of at least equal capability and all the key plays fro last year King , Davies , Burke , Zigic , Fahey and Spector remained until the manager fell out with some of them !!
On TVOR first he should be sued under trades description act for misrepresentation by using that tag! Second myabe he gets attacked for suggesting anyone who doesnt back this inept manager is a villa fan.
On same squad as last year like for like
Butland for Myhill
Ambrose for Mutch
Caddis for Carr
Mullins for Ndaw
Lovenkrands for Huskipp
Hall for Townsend
The point is we replace those we lost with players you would expect to be of at least equal capability and all the key plays fro last year King , Davies , Burke , Zigic , Fahey and Spector remained until the manager fell out with some of them !!
On TVOR first he should be sued under trades description act for misrepresentation by using that tag! Second myabe he gets attacked for suggesting anyone who doesnt back this inept manager is a viler.
Ok Almajir so you want LC out, have to say i’m not too happy about getting stuffed 4-0 at home either, but as you seem to have ALL the answers, answer me this what manager in their right mind would come in & do a “job” under our current circumstances, you said yourself we can’t afford to sack him which probably means we can’t afford decent wages for a decent manager either, so what’s the answer?, sack him? let him resign?, let some nobody come in & take the helm who’s even more clueless & end up taking us down to the 3rd tier?, Whatever anger I feel towards LC & certain players after yesterday I think we’re stuck with what we’ve got unless LC can find someone decent in the loan market……..Unless of course you’d like to see a certain out of work scottish manager return to St Andrews hmmm? I think all the fans calling for LC’s head really need to look at the bigger picture here. KRO
Our last league defeat was on New Years Day when we were by far the better team for long periods against league leaders Cardiff.
For those (most) of you who don’t go the prodigal son Zigic did not start in any of these games. So in our 5 match unbeaten run he was a bit player coming on as sub. Now we know why he aint been starting as it has all come out as to why he’s on the bench cos Lee has been roasting him every week for not trying in training. The senior professionals agreed with Lee. Zigic carried on.
Like me Lee wont tolerate anybody taking the piss out of the club and setting a bad example to the rest of the squad and rightly told us all the situation. For all the pelters he got for not discussing Fahey now he gets pelters for telling us whats going on. The bloke can’t win.
We lost a game of football after being unbeaten in 5 and look at the reaction. This is Blues fans 2013. Well not all of us. Not all of us are gonna jump ship or look for scapegoats or hope we lose the next 2 games. Some of us will support the club we love. That’s real support not net support.
Wrongly told us all the situation you must surely mean?
Any boss who airs his dirty laundry in public is behaving without decorum, dignity and most importantly without control of the situation.
I too am a Clark neutral taking a balanced view of what he has to work with, his age and experience, ownership problems etc and I badly want him to succeed but what I simply can’t understand is that we’re actually debating whether to discuss Zigicgate in public was a good man management move. Ask anybody in any shop / factory / office how they would feel if their boss behaved in that way……I think we all know what the answer would be!
Whilst he is the manager of our football club LC will have my backing but I simply can’t condone his recent conduct regarding Zigic.
Bottom line is no fecking about by Zigic no story.
Clark hasdone what you asked and kept it behind closed doors several times but it’s not getting through so he went public and I’m glad.
Cmon Zigic where’s your or your agents statement? Where are the other squad members saying its untrue.
The man is taking the pee out of our cluband still you have brain dead morons singing his name who quickly scuttled back into the corners when they were booed.
You wanna focus the blame correctly
In my opinion a situation developed, managers are paid to deal with all manner of situations and mange them for the best interest of the business (read club) I believe Clark handled it poorly. Interesting that he hasn’t been fined.
I wonder if there is a long discord between the two, especially as Zig hasn’t been starting. Not similar but Bobby Robson always maintained that Gary Lineker was an awful trainer yet clearly delivered the goods. Could it be Zigic doesn’t want to train properly and hard for LC?
I would like to think that Zigic trains hard, gets a recall and scores the winner on Tuesday.
Paul – take it you didn’t see the Zigic quotes in the Birmingham Mail?
The point you make about a divided fan base is an important one and also one that’s been missed by a number of people. I’ve been watching Blues since the 1971 season – ah for the days of Francis, Latchford, Hatton, Hynd et al – and this is worryingly the most divided I’ve seen our fans in my memory. And understandably so. At the end of the season I think we do all agree that the best we’d realistically like to see would be avoiding relegation, a change of owners and a change of management. Until then the best we can do is show some support for the team. KRO
Exactly mate, I actually found it quite sinister yesterday when the Zigic / one lazy b’d chants started. Just shows how people who ultimately want the same thing can be manipulated one way or another. Clark did an awful lot of damage with his outburst.
Carlos, in many situations id agree. keeping in house fine. But if his called him in 3 times already and Zigic isnt listening, then im at a loss what Clark can do given that he cant be sacked. %9k gives the finger and frankly how does anyone manage that, he had to do something. Zigic denials are meaningless as he cant admit it can he.
i think that it is quite reasonable to change one’s mind about a manager (particularly a new one) during the course of a season. One gives the new manager some support and slowly, as the season progresses, one adjusts one’s opinion or not. Clark has made massive errors in his signings, big errors in team selection, errors in the timings & the personnel of substitutions, an inability to see how the game is going & to make changes to make things better, & man-management. All these failings amount to a very poor manager, and Almajir is perfectly entitled to say “enough is enough”. By the way I think I would have preferred to keep Papa Bouba Diop on the wage list than to have signed Thomas. Thomas couldn’t even get a regular place in Bournemouth’s team.
OP – Surely it is time for PP to step in and sort this almighty mess. As you are aware there are rumours of LC using Zigic as a scapegoat on Bcfcfreeforums. However there is something called gross misconduct which would cost nothing in terms of compensation. Following a full investigation behind the scenes of course.
Oh its a rumour so it must be true… grow up!
First time commenting on this blog, I strongly agree with Al, my worry is that with so many players out of contract at the end of this season and looking at the tripe that Clark has signed and the fact we dont have a penny to spend, if we arent a league 1 club come may 2013 we will be come May 2014. The only hope is that someone buys us sooner rather than later and puts a new man at the helm. Lee Clark was a decent League 1 manager, I fear he will soon be managing a League 1 birmingham city side… oh and has anyone saw Jake Jervis tweets on Friday? If so what are your views?
i agree hes not good enough for blues and i dont think the senior players are on his side. but whos going to come to us now realistically???? main priority is to stay up get the BIH books sorted so the club can be sold. We will have much more appeal if we are taken over….unless its another hong kong consortium of yeungs cousins brothers aunties dogs goldfish called wanda!!!! another thing is we didnt really expect a win did we against watford this season???
Again it did not take long before Antis got out their chairs again.. we hate clark we hate the board. we love zigic…surprise, surprise.. get over it.
Totally agree with your last blog Paul, watford were to good on Saturday end of and fair play to them. Dust ourselves down and go again on Tuesday, Well -done to that blue supporter from Southampton NOT ENOUGH credit given to supporters like that. Funny we forget that Sir Alex Ferguson can have splat but Clark cannot!!!.
I AM EXTREMELY glad that CLARKWETRUST HAS given Zigic a mouthful to be honest, on that kind of money he should be banging 25 goals in this league. Again I hope he redeems himself and play well on Tuesday AS ANY blues supporter would. KRO
I knew before the game yesterday we had lost when I seen our team, however complaining about LC isn’t going to do us any good either. Please just get behind the club and hope we stay up this season. As for Tuesday, lets hope he realises to play a stronger midfield that can compete and maybe Zig and LC will make up. My selection for Tuesday would be:
Butland
Caddis
Davies
Caldwell
Hancox
Burke
Reilly
Spector
Morrison
Redmond
Zigic
Just my opinion, a team that could compete?
Mickey this the team that should have played on Saturday.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that line-up at all, infact it’s superb.
I’d give Morrison a free role to play just behind Zigic, however.
and maybe it wasclose to being the starting 11 until Zigic showed how disinterested he was!
Its not a case of who supports clark and who dont the cold facts are we aint got the money to sack him anyway so saying on here or singing clark out is wasting ur time,in my eyes if we cud av somehow sold zigic jan and got him and his wage off the bill,we cud av had the best outcome all round,zigic gone and mayb funds 2 sack clark 2.saying that who,d want the job under the owners now
your slander does not wash with blue fans kro
What slander? The rumours eminate from bcfc freeforums. Surely the training incident and outburst by LC requires an investigation by PP behind the scenes.?
I think you’ve mistook the word “rumour” for the word “fact” – there is no verifiable proof that it happened and thus you cannot take it as gospel…
Perhaps I should re-phrase, the rumours ought to be investigated by Peter Pannu behind the scenes.
I suspect PP knows more about what is going on behind the scense than some bloke off a forum despite being in HK
If that’s the case why was the whole matter allowed to get to the press in the first place – nothing like washing your dirty linen in public? And matters on the pitch have been allowed to worsen?
May be PP was happy for his manager to manage in any way he sees fit, if that is to give a lazy arse a dressing down in public, because he’s ignored private warnings, so be it!
How do you know he is a lazy arse & has ignored private warnings ?
Because it was in The Sun AND in colour. ;-)
How are they allowed to worsen FFS? We’ve just had a 5 match unbeaten run.
We have just lost 4-0 at home to a well tuned Watford side and barely put up a fight. Things seems to be more stable these last few weeks until this latest outburst was allowed to hit the press. Instead of playing ae experienced international up front we have somebody from Bournemouth’s reserves. Instead of taking Robinson off after 20 mins he hobbles around and costs us goals. However things sre wonderful on the pitch aren’t they?
Clearly he knows more than all of us but this actually makes his inactivity and lack of leadership even more unforgivable.Plus the fact that he has been well rewarded financially to provide leadership and direction.
Swiss, how do you know his being inactive about it, after all isnt he supposed to keep it all in house. Cant win again really.
Fair point James.I don’t know he’s being inactive-I suspect it.I may well be proved wrong over the forthcoming days-but I doubt it.Once the alleged incident went public PP needed to act in public.Lets just hope the incident blows over and we can regroup and get on a winning run.
Almajir,
This blog has run and run so if this question has been answered elsewhere I apologise.
Was there a bust up at training before the Watford match where senior players questioned the planned tactics of the manager because they were being beaten by the reserves.? Did Mr Clark then single out Zigic as the reason his tactics were not effective and choose to reveal all this to the press before the match blaming Zigic for lack of effort?
When poor managers are failing they often resort to bullying and blaming others, is that what we are witnessing here?
I wasn’t there, so I can’t tell you yes or no.
you intimated that the Lita fall out is fact, when it is nothing of the sort… hence slander!
I am sick of the arguing, sick of the negativity, sick of the split in the fan base, sick of the Board, sick of Clark, sick of the team, even sick of my fellow fans. Our club is dying! These next two games are huge for our season and I really fear now for our survival chances if we don’t pick up 4 points out of the these next two games. The only thing we can do is back the team right up until the end of the season as they will need the 12th man to help maintain our championship status. Nothing will change until the summer in any case. Clark won’t be sacked and there is no impending takeover until BIHL accounts are published. FACT. Back the boys it’s all we can do! KRO.
Dan, there not listening mate
There more interested in hanging LC
I understand what your saying but we need to back them week in week out not just for the next two games. I totally understand people can’t afford to go and I’m not saying go if you can’t afford it. Back the team don’t back the owners / management if you think that way but back the team at all costs. as Delia sais “lets be having you” lol KRO
For me, Clark is simply showing himself to be a vastly inexperienced manager in a high pressure job with high expectations from all sides.
Had he have stayed in League One, won promotion with a League One team, survived in the Championship and THEN have taken the Blues job (or equivalent) – we’d likely see a much more confident, much more assured manager.
The issue now is that he’s not only hurting his own managerial reputation, he’s hurting our reputation, the reputation of the players, he’s hurting the fans, hurting the saleability of the club…
It’s a real shame, and certainly a huge contrast to last season which was one with immense positives.
As said above, we cannot afford to sack him – and so all we can do is either wait for him to walk (which he won’t as he’s picking up a paycheck) or hope we can secure a mid-table finish and see what the Summer holds in terms of a takeover and a potential replacement.
It’s batten down the hatches time, let’s ride the storm and see where we are in May. I just hope Lee Clark et al haven’t poked any more holes in the hull, otherwise it could get rather damp in here…
Instead of just waiting until the end of the season, you could try something completely outside the box…. and supporting him! But no… whinging is so much better, a good toxic atmosphere at Stans certainly helps the players!
I think he’s had more than enough support, Mr Spain. We are not followers of a religion, where blind faith is demanded of us – we are free thinking beings able to question those in charge/
Almajir – I have to say I am surprised at the nature of your post. Normally, you can be relied upon to take a balanced and measured position which is well researched and well articulated. I think this attitude is what lies behind your very successful and well-respected blog. More recently, I think you have adopted a militant and knee-jerk reaction to events at BCFC. Your trashing of Wes Thomas is an example of this and it simply whips up the emotions of folk and the blog comments descend into personal rants that are frankly a bore. Your reaction to the Zigic incident has been similarly one-sided. I don’t think this is a time to lose our heads. I think it is a time to pull together, build confidence and be careful jumping to fixed conclusions based on one result or one event when the situation at Blues is volatile, complex and unpredictable.
I’m not so sure you’re right, have you seen Wes Thomas play? He’s simply not that good!
Johnners
It is a time to pull together – I agree – but I think yesterday was evidence more than ever that in the crowd the opposite is happening. Clark has managed to split the fanbase over the Zigic thing and it’s going to take a supreme effort of PR to fix that. The team looked well beaten and needed changing – but it didn’t happen. I didn’t expect us to win but I do expect the manager to see things that everyone else does – ie Robinson being off the pace and having a horrific game, Hall being largely anonymous and try to fix it.
Trying to be objective here but I have been baffled by the decisions of every manager at this club at some point over the years. Lets be honest here.
Ziggy we are stuck with. This is not LC’s fault.
Almajir.
Yes you are right and survival in this league is vital for the long term future of the club.
Calling people liars and filth on a very well respected blog is not helping matters and will only fuel the current level of frustration and anger.
On a personal note I have been accused of lying on your blog and because I share your views about Clark have been described as filth.My father and grandfather were both ardent supporters of the club and like many genuine supporters I followed the family tradition.Being caled filth is not only offensive but is also disrespectful to me,my family and my parents who have followed the club for the last 70 years.
I will no longer write on your blog but will be happy to wake up in the morning and read the latest views and comments from those capable of airing their views constructively without finding the need to be offensive.
I genuinely hope Blues survive this year and our fortunes change .I’m proud to be a brummie and always will be.
Art
Unfortunately I’m not available 24 hours a day to police comments on this blog – however much I’d like to.
I think people need to take a long hard look at themselves about what they write – yes Mr Carter, that includes you – and decide if they want to be adults about it.
I’m going to have a scan through the comments now and start deleting what is necessary…
Art, why let them get to you ? You what you are, the ones who throw insults and then get hissy are not worth bothering aboput.. I havent been this season, I watched the first few matches on TV and was appalled at the standard of football so havent bothered to go.If that makes me a worse Fan than some, then so be it..I havent got an excuse not to go, I can afford it, I can get there easily and My wife would be glad to get me out of the house, but I havent got any interest in going.. But it will take more than posts from some of those on here to get me upset..Nil Illigitimum Carborendum..Keep posting Kiddo.
Chas, I take my hat off to you for saying that. You have no interest in going, that’s no problem and honest.
If all the rest would admit it too it would be better instead of making out they’re still Blues.
Art;, I know you must feel sick of all this division being aired today, !!. I have refrained from entering it until I read your above comments,
I have no intention of casting any strong opinion’s at this stage, as there is far too much unnecessory diatribe being scattered about needlesly by fellow Bluenoses, — Who under different circumstances, — Would not stoop so low, !!.
Just to say to you, mate, DO not stop participating,!!. People who should know better, ought to reflect on using insulting words to one another, — Instead of pure debate, !!!.
Johnners, i couldnt of put it better myself. Al please don’t be offended as i say this respectfully and would never address it any other way, but lately i too have been disappointed with some of your comments. Yes i know its all about opinion and your not immune to emotion sure i understand all that. But i believe you have a responsibility as the leader of this blog to be measured and even cautious in your words. if your going to accuse Clark of causing division (which personally i take issue with) then i think its for you to do the same. You know as well as i do that some of the comments here from some go beyond constructive and just get aimless and full of bile towards the board , manager and sometimes players.and are often inaccurate too. Mostly you put people straight and you’ve put me straight on occasion too. But if you don’t mind me saying, you have become a little knee jerky lately. The Pannu thing i thought you could of handled better. Without having all the facts you slaughtered him and its no surprise he didn’t respond. Now this knowing full well that some people here seem to think that if only Clark would step aside then Moreno will pop over and take on the job, and in reality nobody credible actually applied. Tweeting straight after a game saying Clark out ( not sure i have that right put me straight if im wrong) was bound to throw up the bad vibes again and calling for him to go after a bad result and OK bad tactics too. Well as Paul said our last defeat in the league was new years day. If im wrong there blame Paul i cant be bothered to check :)
It was a bad day yesterday sure and something you said last week stuck in my head. You said its hard to find something to write about when things are going well. Well im not accusing but could it be that you prefer the strife so that your job is made easier. I don’t think calling for Clarks head was a wise move and all the destructive elements are back and as a man of influence that you are, i believe its encouraged the pointlessness all over again. That negativity of old was affecting performances on the pitch due to bad atmosphere, stupid talk of protests which help nothing, and on the back of a bad day they will surely start up again, none of which will help us stay up or climb the table. Just sharing my thoughts. Im not pretending Clark is on the mark yet, but i would of thought a full season is the least he should have considering nobody else wants the job and calling for his head will do a lot of harm. If you don’t believe in Clark fine i can respect that. But to comment straight after a game knowing what hot heads their are posting on this site and the bad feeling which was starting to fade, i have to say, was it wise. Just my view and hope i’ve not angered you, but i wanted to say it as i saw it. In May im sure we wont be going down, and its right to say Clark got the tactics wrong yesterday and in some previous games too, but it went further than that. call for his head in May maybe, but now, was it wise. Also who do you think should come in then and how could they make a difference with less than half a season and a squad not their own. Just saying, but will also say for the most part you do a great job, just feel lately its slipped a bit, maybe emotion. Hope you wont dress me down too much but wanted to be straight.
James
Thanks for your comment.
I try to be measured but sometimes it’s not possible. Sometimes, there has to be emotion. I’m not a “leader” or a spokesman – I’ve never professed to be and never wanted to be – so don’t pin that one on me. I’m just a fan, and I write what I think – that’s all I’ve ever written. It’s fine if people choose to disagree with me – opinions are always going to divide people on how they take them, I’m not bothered at all by that.
Re Pannu … well, let’s just say that I believe I know a little bit more than you do on that situation.
Ok Al, Fair reply.
I guess this explains your #clarkout tweet at the final.whistle
I was pretty mad.
It’s not just the performance – it’s the fact that it was obvious what needed changing – Robinson looked dead on his feet on 25 minutes.
I’ll be honest Dan I couldn’t believe it when i saw that tweet.
Why?
Am I not allowed an opinion either Paul?
Don’t put words in my mouth Dan.
I never thought to see you tweet that opinion even more weird as we didn’t play that bad.
I’m sorry Paul, but it’s gone too far.
I didn’t expect us to win but I didn’t expect us to lose so badly. What makes it worse is that it didn’t have to be that badly – as you say, some of the team played well – Butland, Burke, Redmond to name three.
However – to hang your left back out to dry in the manner that Paul Robinson was – he was injured on 25 minutes – is absolutely unforgivable. We conceded three goals because Robinson was on one leg and couldn’t get to his man – and there is no one else to blame for not subbing him (and probably Hall) off but Lee Clark.
Do I want Clark to succeed? Of course I do. I want Blues to win, I want us to do well, and I’ll be there every game I can get to to cheer them on. However, I don’t think Clark is up to it – indeed, haven’t thought it for some time – and it’s become plain to me that I don’t think he can rescue it and we are in severe danger of going down. Things have to change.
Clark can not handle Zigic (amongst others) to big a player in every way for him, , wages, international quality , stature.
So he falls back in to his comfort zone by bringing in dross league one players like Thomas ,
he can then play the big man with the likes of them..
Almajir is right Clark Out , before we have a team of league one players , playing in league one,
& undisputabley Clark wasn’t a great success in that league either.
Clark may have been right to drop Zigic, in fact he probably was. He was totally wrong to share his decision with the media and the fans. It makes Zigic unsellable, it makes it practically impossible to make any money from selling him, it makes bringing him back into the squad or the team very difficult. Listen to Clark in the press conference. How many times does he say “I” “my” “me”. A lot. He is more interested in himself than the team or us the fans and needs to sort his priorities out. Maybe he just needs to 0121?
First Blues match I’ve seen live since 1991 (beat Exeter 1-0 in the third division, under T. Cooper). Much more commitment than the away match at Watford which I saw on TV at the start of the season. Nothing up front so no surprises in the end result once we give away two stupid goals before half time. We really miss Murphy. A shame that our supporters are so quiet. The Watford lot were embarrassingly loud.
We’ve just got to accept we’re stuck with Clark until the ownership of the club gets sorted out. Nobody would want to manage us with that hanging over them. I don’t think we’ll go down this season, but I think we will next season. Burke and Davies and King will be off in the summer. I now live in Bristol so am looking forward to the fixture at Ashton Gate in April. And good luck to Watford. They looked a really good team and I hope they clinch 2nd spot ahead of Brucie’s Hull.
Dave / Bob they weren’t emabarassingly loud they had 2500 fans that sung all through the game and are a team that are playing with confidence, pretty much galvanised and on the up. Don’t get me wrong we shouldn’t hear the away fans at Stans but yesterday they stood taller than we did. Blues these days stand taller away and will continue to do so. This season any blue nose will not know if they are going to win lose or draw come kick off. Blues will take a very good crowd to Peterborough and if you can’t make it, then listen where you can cos you won’t hear the home crowd at all. KRO
So a big week beckons for all connected to BCFC although it is not the be all and end all. First up we take on Sheff Wednesday on Tuesday then on to Bazza’s Posh Peterborough. I hope all players and staff have had chance to review the Watford game and see where their involvement in the game can be improved. All the comments above have said enough about yesterday so let’s move on together.
If we can get a win Tuesday it will be a big boost for Saturday. Blues are under no pressure when it comes to away games and with a large following at Peterborough, I am sure we will get another result. I do think LC will have to pick the correct / best side he can put out and motivation will be a key thing.
Two more things – Where will the drinking hole be at Peterborough?
Secondly – Will Almajir’s next post be “reflections on my reflections of the Watford game lol?
After all he is only human and like all us Blues fans hurting and having to blog every day. KRO
In a warped way maybe we are under pressure in away matches because the home form is so poor?
Bluehobba I will be in Peterborough town centre around 11am, at the moment any drinking hole will do!!
I will be there about 1pm, hope to bump in to you there! I will get the first one in KRO
Won 9, Drawn 11, Lost 12.
Like Clark, Hate Clark, who’s cares.
Facts are facts, 38 points after 32 games.
-11 goal difference.
It’s simply not good enough. Blame Pannu, blame BIHL, it’s the manager that selects the team and tactics, we’ve been allowed use loan market same as any other club in Championship, we’ve not brought players in that have enhanced team.
Sorry but facts are facts, deal with it.
‘Nuff said.
I thought we played some very good football on Saturday and Burkes performance on the wing was superb. We are entitled to bemoan our luck. All of their goals were assisted by either ball give aways (Redmond and Robinson) a failure to engage their right winger who was free in acres of space due to an apparent injury to our left back and the other one was aided by the ref overlooking a blatant foul in the midfield from which Watford went on to score. We missed 3 sitters, their keeper made two incredible saves and we were denied a blatant penalty. Did Watford deserve to win? Of course they did! Was this an “end of the world” performance for Blues? Of course it was not!. The crowds are nudging up encouragingly for an epic battle against the drop. So whether you are irritated or not by the mis-spelling of LC’s surname, whether you agree or not that not everyone who ccontributes to OP has the best interests of the club at heart and whether it matters to you or not that not all of us contributors have an intellectual capability to rival Einstein, Just – Get down there Tuesday night and I believe we have a good chance of picking up at least 4 points from the next six. KRO&O&O&O!
This is where we need a strong Chairman or Chief Exec to handle the situation.If we had such an individual the LC and Zigic episode would have been sorted out and put to bed in a professional manner before the game.Instead we have the anonymous,talentless and abrasive Peter Pannu.Leadership and example come from the top-what has filtered down is a culture of crisis management and ill timed rants.We are in serious trouble now and Pannu is hiding inHK.What a disgrace.
Amen to that.
The so-called “voice of reason” gets too much attention on this site which has always tried to be the real voice of reason. Let us all ignore him as he loves attention.
Read all the comments and some make you laugh. We get the usual rant and abuse from PCTVOR, claiming most who post on here do not attend, but when you read the posts it seems to me most DO go down.
I don’t like Clark, ever since the first game against Watford, something about him, his body language. And just when fans like me were beginning to warm to him, the Zigic thing happens. Those who like Clark will believe him, those who don’t will take the big man’s side. Truth is none of us know unless we were there. BUT, we do know there was arift with Morrison earlier in the season, we do know he fell out with Lita, and that could come back to haunt us, so is it any wonder people are doubtful about Clark’s role in all this.
My single biggest complaint is that with the squad we had/have we should be doing better, maybe not top six but top ten. You telling me Millwall, Burnley and others are better man for man? And that is down to coaching and tactics and that is the responsibility of no-one but the manager and his backroom staff.
We all want Blues to stuff Wednesday and Posh, nonsense to say we want them to lose. Stop all the name calling, accept peoples opinions and discuss, that’s what this blog is all about.
Milan Calasan is very outspoken and I am sure he would have spoken up by now if Zigic had cause to dispute what LC has been stating publicly. He informed us that Ziggy is sitting pretty on Man U wages so why should he move on. We may recall his comment following Birmingham’s relegation “The only thing that is sure is that Zigic is going to leave Birmingham this summer”.
So I am with LC on this one. As for expecting PP to show his face to settle the dispute, I hink we need to be realistic and understand that PP is no longer an advocate of BCFC even though he withdraws a perverse and inordinate salary from the club. We are not going to get any more players in this season and if we were to relieve our managers of their positions right now, then the incoming team would inherit the same circumstances and resources. So lets get real and support Lee Clark and what ever team he picks. See you Tuesday night! KRO!
Were all Blues fans right. We all have different ideas and theories. My one wish is to not see people making it worse and encouraging civil war as that’s the last thing we need right now. Its not last season and the situation is nothing like the same nor was it ever going to be. This season has been hectic and stressful for anyone that loves the Blues, but its bringing the worse out in us, and yes me too sure i admit it. But if we just stick to constructive discussion and think a little wider than hanging people players managers and board members we will come through this im sure. As fans we have a massive impact on what happens on the pitch by getting behind the team. We used to be great fans, lets get back to that and stop blaming. We are where we are due to many different circumstances and blame gaming just gets out of hand. I disagree with many many disagree with me but hey don’t we all want the same thing. We have to ride out the situation the club is in no matter what we think their ain’t nothing else can be done. Full support till May come what may, and we just may be fine in the long run, but stay unified even when we don’t agree and calling for heads ain’t ever gonna help at this time in our evolution. We will be back one way or another just believe and stop the insults to each other, board, manager, players whatever. Opinion fine but respectfully. Is that fair comment?????
Your last sentence, J,B;, Sums it all up, — methinks, !!!.
Common sense James,
A couple of years ago I had a Chinese cookie – I opened it and it said “Good luck” never had one since!!!!
What is driving me bloody mad here and on all the Blues forums is the implied hierarchy and holier than thou bull spouted by some.
if one it’s luck enough to be able to attend every game it does not mean their opinion it’s gospel or indeed has to be more correct or carry more weight than any one elses. an opinion by definition cannot be wrong.
the Zigic situation it’s just wholly unprofessional – you do not discipline an employee infront of other staff let alone the media. I’ve met Ziggy on several occasions, he is a very intelligent guy and loves the club and I would be amazed if what Clark said was 100% true. whose job it’s it to motivate the players and to get the best out of them ? it’s it a coincidence that a lot of the players have performed very poorly under Clark this season ?
just my two penneth of course.
Just a side note, my old man went to watch training last season (supporters club day) and Zigic stayed after training and went for a couple of miles run.
Obv putting the effort in last year. What’s changed this year?
Our manager perhaps?
Manager are there to motivate their team and get the best out of them.
Clark tries but is inept
I’ve been on many Blues forums over the last 10 years and they don’t seem to change. People who don’t listen to others’ opinions, consider them to be born out of stupidity because they differ. People who self righteously take some intellectual high ground, by adding some long words to their post and referring to others as thick. People who accuse others as Villa fans because they think in a different way.
This has all come to. “Clark out” head, but let me ask this. While a club like Forest can hire no better than Billy Davies, who the hell is going to join a club like Blues where the players are poor, by even last years standards, we’re looking likely to enduring League One next season, our off-the-field scenario can only be worsened by Portsmouth at present and top of all of that the fans (you lot included) can’t stand together? Who?????
Whatever your point of view on the comments made on this blog, I think it is important to respect other supporters. We are all hurting at the moment and care about our club and where it is heading. The fans can see their club falling apart at the seams, only points matter at this stage of the season. A few good results will make everyone feel better. Let’s hope the senior players get a grip and show the way forward over the next few weeks.
i expected to lose against a very good watford side but to lose 0-4 is unacceptable.
clark can’t be held accountable for certain players not performing but he can be held accountable for not rectifying the situation by leaving them on the pitch (in the cases of hall and robinson)
he can also be held accountable for setting us out in the wrong formation, it was obvious that 4-5-1 was needed yesterday, obvious to everybody but the man with the power to make the decisions
looking forward, we’ve got two huge games on the horizon, if we win them both we’ll have made some progression up the table and some may have forgotten about yesterday’s debacle, but the proof is in the pudding, we’ve lost more games at home than we have won, including a 5-0 and a 4-0 – for this clark has to be held responsible?
I’ve been on many Blues forums over the last 10 years and they don’t seem to change. People who don’t listen to others’ opinions, consider them to be born out of stupidity because they differ. People who self righteously take some intellectual high ground, by adding some long words to their post and referring to others as thick. People who accuse others as Villa fans because they think in a different way.
This has all come to a “Clark out” head, but let me ask this. While a club like Forest can hire no better than Billy Davies, who the hell is going to join a club like Blues where the players are poor, by even last years standards, we’re looking likely to be enduring League One next season, our off-the-field scenario can only be worsened by Portsmouth at present and on top of all of that the fans (you lot included) can’t stand together? Who?????
I wonder if PP wished he apointed Zola now. In LC deffence the guys had to try and gel a team together with one hand tied behind his back. Nothings going to change untill the sesons over. Paul Carter and a fair few others veiws should be respected thats what freedom of speech is all about. Every Blue nose should do what we do best KRO and what will be will be at the end of this season.
“Oh, so you are happy here son? Well I will make your life unbearable, and then we will how happy you are!”
Don’t rise to it Nikola. You’ll be here when he’s gone with a bit of luck.
“Oh, so you are happy here son…well I am going to make your life as unbearable as I can. Then we will see how happy you are!”
Don’t rise to it Nikola. With a bit of luck you will still be here when he’s gone!
ffs this is like listening to loose women on the time of the month – we were unbeaten in 5.
What happens if we win on Tuesday; will you all be talking about promotion?
KRO
Almajir
i assume your too young to recall that quality forward, Carl Richards;regarded by a number of us oldies as the worst of Gary Pendrey’s, and a good few other managers signings. Arrived from Bournemouth; signed have played against us; doubt if he ever scored for us; but on a par with the current performance of Thomas.
Scored twice in nineteen league appearances.
Just before I really started going.
LEE CLARK PLEASE LEAVE OUR CLUB NOW.
I dont know, after reading all this it surely proves Birmingham City Football Club is in a complete mess, top to bottom, a mess.
Some of you have made the point that going public about Zigic’s non- training sessions was bad man management. How would we feel you ask if we were treated in a similar way in the workplace?
It would not matter. After two warnings about our non-performance we would be sacked and “down the road!!
So having seen just about every comment on every Blues fansite it seems there’s an exceptionally high % of fans wanting LC out, surely this ‘we can’t afford to pay him off’ is nonsense, if Pannu felt LC was going to send us down I’d be pretty sure he’d find the money to remove LC and his backroom staff as relegation to L1 would cost the club a hell of a lot more than a severance package would
Just wanted to say that I thought Caddis had a good game. We left early for the first time in about 20 years. At least there were no arguments where we were sat – every was in agreement I’m afraid.
KRO.