Often Partisan

Twenty Years

Birmingham City’s unbeaten away run in 2013 came to a crashing halt with a heavy 5-2 defeat to Hull City yesterday. Blues went behind after just 49 seconds and only late goals from Peter Lovenkrands and Chris Burke made any dent in what was a crushing scoreline.

As I wasn’t at the game I cannot comment on individual performances, tactics or anything like that but I did want to look at the significance of the result. On the face of it whilst it was (and let’s be blunt here) a mauling by the Tigers, thanks to other results Blues only dropped one place in the division to 17th and remain six points clear of 22nd placed Peterborough albeit having played one game more. It’s not quite the end of the world.

However, I can understand why people aren’t happy with Lee Clark. In honesty – I’m not. I thought we would spend this season challenging at the right end of the table and the fact Blues aren’t has to be at least partly down to the manager. I do wonder though if a lot of it is to do with expecatation levels.

For example, when Blues went 5-0 down I wondered out loud on twitter when was the last time Blues lost by more than four goals three or more times in a season (as we were on to do then). With Peter Lovenrkands and Chris Burke scoring Blues managed to rescue it to losing by three but it’s a stat I’m still interested in. A couple of years ago Blues conceded two 5 goal defeats in one season – but that was to Manchester United and Liverpool away, and probably a bit more palatable (if only slightly) than Barnsley at home.

It took me a few minutes, but I had to trawl back 20 years to find the answer- in 1992/3, Blues went down 4-0 four times in a season. Blues lost 4-0 to Wolves at home, as well as Tranmere, Southend and Portsmouth away. Blues barely clung on to their second tier status that year, finishing 19th in a season that started with major financial worries as the Kumar Brothers’ business went into administration. This was the era of Terry Cooper as manager and Andy Gosney in goal… and losing 6-4 to Swindon after being 4-1 up with 20 to play.

In the interceding twenty years Blues have only been worse positioned in the league for two of them; 93-94 (when Blues were relegated with 52 points on goal difference) and 94-95 (Blues came back up as Champions of the Second Division). Since then, Blues haven’t finished lower than 15th in the second tier and haven’t had an average crowd of less than 17,732 in league games – records Blues could easily break both of this season.

This is where I think the dissatisfaction with Clark comes from. It’s been a long time since we were this poor – and in fairness to the Cooper team, they didn’t have an England international in goal or a striker who cost £6million up front. As much as times have been tough this year this is the poorest Blues have been for a long time and people of my age at least will probably struggle to remember Blues being poorer.

Lee Clark has stated that he wants the players to treat Saturday’s game as a one-0ff, pick themselves up and try again harder against Blackpool. Whilst I can see this has been met with derision it’s the only thing Blues can do at the moment. At this moment in time Blues’ only focus can be on ensuring survival in this division and what needs to be done to make that happen. Blues have eleven games left this season – I reckon that in honesty a couple of wins should secure our status and we should as fans do what we can to give the team the lift they need to get it. When the season is over I think the time is right to hold an inquest into what is happened and point the finger of blame – until then I believe we need to get behind them.

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95 Responses to “Twenty Years”

  • Oldbluenose says:

    As yet another, who did not see the game, !!. I likewise cannot comment on individual performances, or team tactics, So as with you, Almajir, I am left with nothing but sorrow over the state our club is in, !!.
    I first found the Blues, in 54/55, Arthur Turner was the manager, He built a fantastic team, with briliant transfers, and the team spirit was marvelous, !!. 55/56, Saw our fantastic run up to the F,A. cup Final, which we lost to the briliance of Don Revie, [ Hated that guy ], and persisted in playing an injured Len Boyd,

    Since then, — I have followed the up’s and downs of our club through all it’s trials and tribulations, Some marvelous memories of players and achievements, — Some real downers, — Such as this current season,!!.

    HOW, I do not know, but I believe we will somehow survive, !!!. K,R,O. !!.

    • maurice walters from thailand says:

      i to have folowed the blues since the 50s what a team indeed gill,jeff,ray,len,trevor,roy,jeff,noel,browny,spud,alex not many of us left who can name them those are good memorys

      • prewarblue says:

        And getting fewer as the years go by Maurice, Oldblue,,,,,we remember those teams and years as our glory years,,,,,when we were something of a club / team to be respected,,,,,we had earned that respect,,,,,now this club/team has lost any right to respect by its goings on behind the scenes and on the pitch,,,,,,last season I was disappointed in the play-off,s and told friends we would be ok ,,,,,replace a couple of the older players and at least mid table security would be our lot for this season,,,,,,now I,m praying for that.

        People ask why the gates have fallen, so many no longer bother going to games,,,,,,money once again is the main reason,,,,,age is another,,,,but its my opinion another major reason is a lack of respect and the shattering of so many dreams and hopes over the years, youth does not respect age,,,,but they do dreams and with so many destroyed, they look to others to give that respect and dream along with them,,,,,,call them “Glory Hunters” or what ever you like,,,,those who dont follow Blues as we did, now have differing dreams with different agenda to follow to fulfill them

      • surreybluenose says:

        You missed out Ken (Green), left back alongside Jeff Hall at right back. How can you forget Hall Green?

      • Mirkwood says:

        Maybe you were thinking of Ray Martin (the original one!) at LB but he only played once in 54-55.

        Incidentally, did you know that classic line-up only played together as a unit 11 times? 3 games in Div 2, 5 in Div 1 and 3 in the FA Cup. But that’s the time we oldies can all recite by heart!!

    • BhamCityJulian says:

      So you are one of the original glory-hunters? Where were you in 1953-54 when the team so needed your support? You only came on-board for a Cup Final tickets (FA and InterCity Fairs) and got someone else to queue for these and your Estudiantes ticket too. :-)

      • BhamCityJulian says:

        Remember my tongue was in my cheek

        • Oldbluenose says:

          Julian, Thou didst not say to whom your comment was directed,?. For me, !!. I just played ” kick-around ” football, until a mates dad, took me and his own son to St, Andrews, as a treat,!!!.

          • BhamCityJulian says:

            It was Prewarblue. If they said it was a ‘treat’ now under #LC Trading Standards should be alerted

        • prewarblue says:

          Being too young at the time,,,,,my Auntie and Uncle got my tickets to all the cup games in 55/56/57,,,,,the only game I missed in 56 was the final,,,,,,,they couldnt get me a ticket !!,,,,,,up until I was old enough to go and get my own tickets they got them for me [ as season ticket holders they didnt have to queue ],,,,,,the Inter milan and Barcelona games my Aunt was ill so used her ticket,,,,,,any others I got my own by queuing like the rest,,,,,even in 68 ! while on leave recovering from an accident in Germany.
          No offence has been taken by your comment,,,,,but some will bite your tongue off for replying to me

          • prewarblue says:

            AND the reason I was taken to so many games by my Aunt and Uncle ?

            To give my Mother time to work on my Grandfather and get him to accept the fact that
            a/ She married without his permission
            b/ she waited for 3 years before giving him his first grandson [ me ]
            c/ the worst crime of all in his eyes,,,,,,,she married a VILLA fan !!

          • BhamCityJulian says:

            Prewarblue – I know. That is why I thought the smiley was not enough and I added the T-I-C post.

            The queue for Estudiantes, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, QPR I remember we’ll

          • chudlt says:

            Bloody glory hunter probably got your ticket!

    • Bluenosesol says:

      Loved reading the comments about the teams of the 50’s and the 56 Cup Final. My mum was a bit selfish, I was born in Dudley Road Hospital now renamed Birmingham City Hospital! I was 3 days old on the day of the final and mum couldnt be *rsed to get out of bed and take me to Wembley :-) . As a consolation I have spent the last few years building up a file on the final and have now quite a collection (Tickets, Programs, Newspapers, Rail Posters,Photo’s. commemorative booklets etc etc) KRO.

  • Country Blue says:

    The strange thing is that result has not spoiled my weekend. I have come to expect, and accept, that we will get stuffed every few games, usually after a reasonable spell when we seem to have turned the corner. There is obviously no chance of the play offs now, so I will be content if we just avoid relegation and hope things might change in terms of ownership and management before next season.

  • Asif ashiq says:

    It was a poor game from start to finish. Lucky to score two goals. Everytime hull attacked i was dreading it!!! Defence was poor. Beaten straight through the middle and no pace. Butland was suspect. Midfield non existent. And scraps for strikers. LC tactics were blown out in the 1st minute.

  • clubclassblue says:

    I may be wrong here but after Caldwells abysmal start to the game I heard that he was not well.
    In a recent home game Robinson was uncharacteristically poor and we later heard that he had not been well or was carrying an injury.
    Why the hell did they start the games then!
    I am not one to bash the management team without cause but this is not good.

    • RichardM says:

      That’s a good point – wasn’t he subbed after 36 mins or something? Looked at fault for the first three goals judging by the highights, wonder if he was subbed becuase of his performance (and the illness story was a cover?)

  • Tigre says:

    We have been threatening to do that to somebody all season , Palace, Blackpool, Leeds , Millwall all could have been on the end of that score. The supply has been there all season but we havent had anyone who could put the ball in the net. You were unlucky you met us just as we got two players who can take chances. We would have lost that game 2-1 Plus side Brm showed character never stopped and played until the whistle. They aren’t a bad team seen far worse this year.

    • bkkblue says:

      Thanks for some perspective from someone who did see the game! Hope SB takes you up this season.

  • marky mark says:

    I have supported LC all along and will continue to do so until the end of the season for the benefit of the team, and I agree all blues fans should do the same.

    But I cannot defend yesterday’s performance by the team or the Manager, they were clearly outclassed from start to finish, wrong formation and individual errors apart we were simply brushed aside.

    I can fully understand the reaction of fans on here enough is enough !

    Facts, he will not resign no Manager ever would or Will
    He will not get the sack.

    Let’s support the team until survival is secured.

    It’s going to be a massive summer for Blues let’s hope the decisions and events that unfold leave us better placed for next season

  • Evesham blue says:

    Interesting comparison with the kumars. The current despondency surrounding the club has probably beed accentuated by the highs a couple of years ago contrasted with the ownership issues and what they have put us through in the meantime.

    Having said that a couple of wins against beatable teams at home can transform us to a mid table team and just maybe we can start to relax a bit.

    The club needs desperately to change over in the summer else it will be more of the same and probably worse next season.

    As for LC well he stuck with the same team. Did we change our formation? We have been ripped apart by Watford in the same way.

    Also – Steven Caldwell – why was he in the starting line up if he was feeling unwell? LC’s persistence with him when he has no pace baffles me. I sincerely hope they do not extend his contract

  • bluenose2 says:

    Almajir, how many times has Butland been beaten by a shot hard and to his left hand side this season, obviously Bruce had done his homework.

    • matt says:

      utter garbage! Hit the ball hard to the keepers left hand side yeah! obviously Bruce had done his homework?????

      • Bluenose2 says:

        Hey Matt,
        Might be garbbage to you, but it does appear to be the side that most goals he concedes are on his right hand side looking out of goal or as the commentators say to the left hand side of goal.

  • JohhnyB says:

    Asif summed it up perfectly. Tactics nothing to do with it. Bad defending by Caldwell, Davies and awful goalkeeping was the reason. Clark worked on something different tactically obviously by the way he lined the team up but when you concede a schoolboy goal like that in the first minute and then another 10 minutes later you have no chance. No doubt the thickos who didn’t go will just ignore how we have been playing since December overall and say it was all Clark’s fault

  • Dave says:

    mediocre manager indeed, but nobody else wanted the job. mediocre team because the owners have sold off the silver over the last two seasons, so no real surprise that things are the way they are. heavy defeats to top four teams are a reality at the moment. survival in the league is step one, new owners step two, new manager step three, new team step four, promotion step five. there we go, easy as you like ;) KRO

    • bluenoseb says:

      What about heavy defeats to a bottom four team on our own patch, that shoudlnt be a reality at all, if bruce/mcleish/hughton had that same team we had out that day against barnsley at home , i think the result would of bin a lot different and wouldnt of conceaded 5, the writing was on the wall from the very first game of the season against barnet they could of bin 3 up b4 we scored, and barnet got of to a shocking start after they played us, that says it all to me. Whatever way u look at it the cons massivly outweigh the pros with clark, and have never had so many no show performances in 1 season and pathetic performances in my 20years of supporting blues. If he keeps us up then thats as far as he can take us it wont get any better under his lack of managment and we havent got years for him to learn from his mistakes. 1 last fing i have never seen a manager shift the blame so much as clark has this season, think he accpeted the blame once in the sheff wed game away over the tactics, other than that he NEVER takes responsibilty for his decsions, will pass the buck on and slate a youngster in the press, but not once has he come out and said i hold my hands up i got it wrong, when people like kevin broadhurst are saying why hasnt he planned for they way hull were gonna attack us with their formation, you do have to wonder about his preparation for games or lack of!!

  • Ali Duncan says:

    I now have no doubts that LC is not the man for the job. However I agree totally with your comments.

    1) lets back the team and gaffer fully until the end of the season
    2) the managerial position must be reviewed at the end of the season regardless of the division we’re in.

    Clark is damaging the club but I do blive he will just about keep us up.

    The fact that we have to play Ipswich, Bristol City, Blackpool and he Dog Eads is massive and if we can get wins in those games we’ll do enough to stay up.

    The thing that has troubled me most has been the constant comedy defending. Much has been debated on here about if it’s the same team as last year and why are we struggling if it is / isn’t the same team as last year (depending on your view). What is absolutely certain is that the three centre backs are the same as last season and I don’t think I’ve seen as many kamikaze displays ever. What has gone wrong that these players have had o many poor games and made such awful errors when last season they were rocks at the back.

    I always try to finish every post on a positive but for this one I simply can’t. How did the confidence and quality of such assured and professional players last year simply desert them on so many occasions.

    I am still having regular nightmares about the 15 minutes of absolute school boy error madness at Millwall in October. It was a good job I’d had a few drinks before as I needed it to ease the pain. I can’t believe how bad we’ve been in that position and that particular game is the worst defending I’ve ever seen by a Bles side.

  • Bluehobba says:

    I think the next 2 games are big games for Blues as they are at home. We have to take something from both of those and then it will be difficult to see us in the bottom 3 before April. I don’t think we will go down as yet again we are scoring goals on a regular basis but need to make sure we are not taking chances with the defenders. Lee Clark needs to get his team selections right from the off. As Brucey used to say we are in a mini league and need to finish top of that. With Fahey back in training and Ambrose return to fitness, it’s time that they also put in a massive effort as Blues have stuck by both of them when we really needed them. Roll on Blackpool but need to keep Ince & co quiet. KRO

  • Blooflame says:

    What’s all this back the gaffer waffle? What are the motives for two different people to say that? One wonders if Clark has got two friends to post here. ANY OTHER club would be protesting in their droves but we are so despondent we “just couldn’t be bothered” … yeah me included. I stated from day one that he just wasn’t the man and his C.V. belied his real failings. I also intimated that the players were’nt sure about him, I know that for a fact. I suspect the latter can explain why we are not performing consistently. A manager with basic tactical knowledge who is a great man manager is whats needed. Not a fool who drops a player and broadcasts it over every medium there is, which, i think, was absolutely shocking.
    Wise up everyone and show LC the cold shoulder at every opportunity

    • almajir says:

      Blooflame

      Or, we could do what we’re supposed to do and support the team…

    • marky mark says:

      Blooflame,

      Hopefully Pannu will discuss the next managerial candidates with you, as obviously you can for see the future and your in touch with all the players, bingo

      The reason fans are not protesting is we accept he is not going to be sacked this season, some people like you don’t seem to be able understand that

      HE IS NOT GOING TO GET SACKED

      Repeat it to yourself a few times and then post something constructive.

      Or you could just support the team !

    • Ali Duncan says:

      I agree he isn’t the man for the job however the hard reality at the moment is that he is and we must support him and the team. What would you rather us do? Boo? Abuse him? That would do no good. The team is fragile so any negative vibe from the stands is not going to be beneficial in our fight to stay up. If we’re united we might just achieve the goal of staying up – that is all that counts. As Al says, come seasons end then the club and fanscn take a long hard look. I suspect the knives will be sharp by then so you may get your wish.

      • Bluenosesol says:

        We could take a leaf out of the Chelsea fans book, they have really united behind their manager and are now bound to qualify for the European Champions League next season – Right! KRO

  • Wingman Blue says:

    I did make it to the game, and there were some plusses in addition to the absymal minuses. I almost missed the first goal as I had turned to answer a guy behind me as to what kind of match it would be. From the start the whole team was awful, to begin with we spread wide to counteract their wingers, so Hull ran through the middle. Clark then then closed up the middle, so the wingers ran round and into space. Caldwell was clearly a liability, his “the injuns are coming!” bit as he ran ahead of Boyd to warn Butland (who was very wobbly to begin with) was almost laughable as he ran ahead darting looks over his shoulder at the oncoming Tiger.
    After the first goal Butland shook his head and muttered something; after the second there were outright recriminations between Butland, Caldwell (who went bright red) and Davies. Nobody seemed to be trying, morale was clearly zero, all players seemed unable to string a pass together, and the third goal was obviously inevitable. Subbing Caldwell made an instant reaction, despite the opposition of one or two in the crowd. Immediately they began to settle, work harder and more effectively, and attempted to force the midfield. Even so, at halftime you couldn’t see where a goal was going to come from.
    Second half started brighter, but in pressing forward Blues opened up large gaps that Hull(Cit-ter!)
    ran into to get their fourth. At this point the row in front asked when I was going to go; some were already leaving. The Hull fans were kicking up a racket, and the question was, when would the fifth go in.
    By now Blues fans were singing ‘we’re gonna win five-four’, the people in front left, and Hull added a fifth. The song was now, ‘we’re gonna win six-five’….
    But something changed around this time, I think it was Redmond’s arrival. Hull immediately put two defenders (at least) on him whenever he got the ball, but even so he began to create problems. After our first goal the Hull fans shut up and you could only hear bluenoses. You felt, that with another forty minutes we could have made it five-all, especially after the second Blues goal when the Hull players appeared panicky. But it was not to be, and Hull deserved their win.
    Redmond, Davies, Burke and Elliott (I think) came over and applauded us at length. I felt sorry for them, clearly they appeared a rudderless ship, swamped by a team that was bigger and fitter with a clear aim to carve Blues open from the start (as they had been done a week previously).

    It was like watching a team under a caretaker manager.

    • Mirkwood says:

      As you were actually at the game do you have any views on Shane Ferguson, who came on at half-time?

      • Wingman Blue says:

        Couldn’t add much, really. He didn’t stand out for me either way, which on a day like Saturday’s, was probably a good thing.

  • Tony says:

    No one is more anti Clark than myself I think hes a total disgrace, he knows the job is beyond him but he will never accept that and walk away, I have even asked myself why should he walk and would I walk in this situation?.
    In all honesty I think i would, Im not that thick skinned as to just carry on regardless knowing the damage I am doing by my sheer incompetence.
    There is plenty of banter with Mark and TVOR, no one doubts their loyalty and support of the club I for one am reluctant to critisise them because they travel to matches and I dont.
    However I for one am not prepared to stand on the tilton saluting and singing KRO as we sink into oblivion, yes Pannu is a lot to blame but he does not put the team out on a saturday or formulate tactics Thats Clarks job.and with the players he has he should be looking at top 8
    Everyone is frustrated and time is running out. Clark should have gone after the Barnsley debacle there is no doubt about that, but he is still here and obviously intends to stay, he doesnt speak anymore about getting it right he knows he cant get it right ,and his training staff are as clueless as him.
    We are where we are we cant sack him,he lacks the integrity to walk so were stuck we just have to hope there are three worse teams than us and its going to be close.

    • bluenoseb says:

      Thats a great point tony for the first 6 months all clark and mcdermot tlaked about was geting it right after a bad result/performance and he hasnt mentioned and doesnt say it any more. Maybe he thinks that geting 2 clean sheets in about 26games is us turning a corner, or the fact that we have lost only 2 in 9, but those 2 defeats have been 4nil at home and 5-2 away, us blues fans can take losing but its the way we lose or litrally cave in under this manager. If he can keep us up then hes done his job and i would only hope we never see him again nexst season new owners or not, but it goes to show how far clark has lowered our expectation this year that now i would snap your hand off in offering us safety, and think it was only fri in the mail clark was saying he expected us to be up the top end of the league, well ur not the only one mate think about 30k bluenoses expected lot better than we r doing, and imo their is only 1 reason/person why were are not, and thats u mr clark. If we had a more experienced manager i would think we would already be safe with the squad that we have.

    • bluenoseneil says:

      Tony,

      1. There ARE at least 3 worse teams than us in this league.
      2. LC is going nowhere at least until we are sold
      3. There is absolutely no justification that anyone can give that proves we are (on paper) worthy of a Top 8 spot in this league

      Change the friggin’ record….it’s really boring!!!

      • Blue in Spain says:

        Hear Hear!

      • nuneatim says:

        With you 100% on 1) and 2) but the evidence that we could reasonably hope for a top 8 finish is surely that under a good manager with virtually the same team last year we ended up in a play-off spot!

        • James Black says:

          Nuneatim apart from its not at all the same team as last year or havent u noticed the injuries and the ones that have moved out. Where do people keep getting this same team as last year nonsense from. have you seen the team list. Many of last years team have not been available to us and it is nothing like the same team as last year. This laboured point is getting boring now. Compare the team list of last year and tick the long term injured alone and u will see you are well off the mark.

      • Blue Steve says:

        I have some justification. I bet we are in the top 8 in the championship for wages.

    • Bluenosesol says:

      Tony, totally understand your frustrations as we all share them but to say you are not prepared to stand on the Tilton and sing KRO??? Just imagine if every Bluenose agreed with you and nobody sang. KRO

  • Paulo says:

    I was at the game ..and to be honest, the set up didn’t look like anything unusual from we’re used to anyway. That was the problem straight away …complacency. That first goal was an utter embarrassment, followed by what can only be described as a disgusting second that went passed Butland. The moment the whistle went, we went chasing the ball and suddenly we had no back line in defense and nothing in midfield to stop them. Sloppy and slow decision making cost us …again.
    Now, this may sound controversial, but, the thing I am seeing of late is that LC is picking the best available squad that he has (on paper), at that time, but what is happening is that many of these players are simply not giving what is being demanded of them on the pitch on that day ..at that precise moment. LC can’t have control over the decisions a player, like Caldwell, makes which in turn concedes us a goal a few seconds later. This I’m afraid, is something that is lacking in a certain aspect of training for example. Put players under pressure and make them think faster and get passes done (correctly) faster. I’m sure Steve Bruce has this covered, as it showed ..not only with George Boyd (signing of the season), but all round as well.
    Some things LC cant do, but in training and behind closed doors ..he can. All I can say about Hull was that we were ‘inept’ and outclassed once again. But no point in getting angry about it, we left in the second half and back to the pub, which the police told us we were not welcome in, very strange, but there fans were good and we were made welcome anyway. Shame we didn’t even put up a fight in the game ..that was just inexcusable.

    • Bluenosesol says:

      Dont know about Boyd being signing of the season after one start, but it is sobering to understand that Hull paid Peterboro 1 million pounds to loan him for half a season. Different World? KRO

      • Brian Hudson says:

        The £1million refers to the possible transfer fee at the end of the season. It is reported that we paid £200,000 for the loan – money well spent, I think!

        • Bluenosesol says:

          Thanks for putting me right Brian, though the sentiment holds. A couple of years ago we were spending a million on suck it and see punts, roll on the summer and hopefully we might have a war chest to reckon with!! (I can dream)

      • Paulo says:

        There is something about that George Boyd, ..he makes it look easy! and I reckon Steve Bruce snapped him up for a damn good reason …amazing how P’boro sold him at such a time as this.

  • Billy Whitehurst says:

    Tigers’ fan here.

    As the other Hull City fan said, we’ve been threatening that sort of score all season and you’re certainly not the worst we’ve seen play us at home. For instance, when Leeds came at Christmas we should have racked up about 6 or 7 and they didn`t muster a single shot.

    I’ve not seen that stats, but from what I remember, you carved out some decent chances (I’m sure you had a couple of one on ones too which were fluffed).

    I think though we did play well a lot of yesterday was down to us now having players who can take chances and us getting the rub of the green.

    From an outsider’s point of view, you’re a big club still in a period of transition and decline, but from what I saw you’ve easily got enough quality in your side to finish in mid table safety and then, hopefully for you, rebuild from there.

    Finally, thought your fans were good yesterday. I was stood near them and didn`t see really hear any barracking of your own players (unlike other fans I’ve seen this year).

    Good luck for the rest of the season.

    • James Black says:

      Cheers Billy. As you was actually there unlike many of the commenters here i take your word for it. Its noticeable that the ones that was there are not half as damning as us armchair fans or in my case bamboo chair fan. As the song goes, we will survive so stop the knees jerking before you all fall over.

  • danny in devon says:

    Lets hope we survive this season what a depressing one it been.
    However bad the manager is however bad some players are the important thing for us to do is to cheer on what we have got ,and try to spur the team on.We need to retain the team in the Championship so that next season hopefully with new owners new manager some better new players we can kick on.
    The important thing at present is SUPPORT,SUPPORT .SUPPORT stop the negative comments lets just get the 6 to 9 points which I hope will be enough to ensure the clubs SURVIVAL

  • DoctorD says:

    Our current predicament is largely due to the state of football finances. The financial gulf between the top two divisions is to blame. You go down and suddenly you have to ship out your stars, bring in dross, rebuild and start again. It didn’t help that McJudas quit like he did – go on, you might not have liked him but we would never under him have been as inept as we are now.

  • Blueboy 88 says:

    Clark is a failed League One manager so there’s no suprise he can not cut it in the Championship.

    20 years ago this month we were bought by Sullivan & the Golds , lets hope history repeats itself & then Birmingham City can employ the manager its deserves , not the cheapest , most desperate one that’s available.

    On another subject , where are the Kumars now ?

    • prewarblue says:

      I,m not sure of this but think Samesh Kumar is the main shareholder [ or one of them ] at Cardiff

      • RichardM says:

        Not any more Prewar – about 15 years ago maybe. Owned by the Malaysians now in case you hadn’t noticed (the shirt sponsor ship is a big clue)

  • Oldbluenose says:

    ALMAJIR;, it occurs to me, [ folowing comments made earlier ] that Peter Pannus, sojoune in Hong Kong, rather than here in Glorious Brum, is/was simply to make certain that B,I,H. accounts wre/are fully up to date for release shortly, !!.

    Surely, the only reason can be is for a sale sometime soon,,?. or there would otherwise be NO NEED, for to act against what has become it’s norm,??.

  • psmith says:

    In his aftermatch comments LC poured praise on Bruce and his team. What a pity he didn’t book in for a tutorial with him. Perhaps, as some say, LC can not be removed due to financial arrangements then surely his coaching team need a shake-up.

  • john51 says:

    Having sat through the game; it appeared to me that our set up was all to cock – Mitch at left back had no support or cover – that was obvious within 5 minutes; yet it took much longer than that for Reilly to be moved out to support him [or thats how it appears to me]. Lee the clown, will i believe go down as our worst post war manager – I believe he is tactically inept; however is it him or those he works with on the coaching staff. Does he have staff in other areas of the ground reporting on out lack of shape etc; or does he just concentrate on that pitch side wiew; or do he lack the ability to respond to how other teams shape up and respond to our play.

  • n says:

    kevin broadhurst made the point on the radio caldwell from the start did not look right and butland should have came out for the first 2 goals and the 2nd 2 goals he should have stopped what bruce did get right was to put balls through the middle and he new boyd would have the speed to cause our static defence problems we need to stay up this season get our new owner in and look to a better future kro to all you bluenoses

  • andy says:

    I will only judge Clark when he has the opportunity to build his own Birmingham squad. For god sake the guy has had to rely on signing players that were on frees because noone else wanted them and loan signings, blooding youngsters. He has yet to have the opportunity to do his job properly. Imagine asking someone like Harry Redknapp to manage Birmingham under these circumstances? He would run a mile, just like a few did before Clark took the job on. Lets give the guy a break and take a look at the players for a change because its them that just aint good enough and its something that the manager is not to blame for because he simply needs the tools and his hands untied to do his job.

    • BhamCityJulian says:

      He failed in League 1, so it is obvious he was going to fail a level higher. You could put him in charge of Manure and he’d screw up. Players my arse.

      • Chris Smith says:

        LC didn’t fail in League One. In fact he built a squad that his successor used to get Huddersfield promoted (play offs against Sheff United). Prior to that he got the team into two Playoffs and a nineth place finish. That’s not faliure, especially considering those were his first three seasons as a manager having previously been a coach at Newcastle and Norwich.

        • James Black says:

          Julian, nobody is saying everything is ideal, but in view of everything that is gong on and until Carson’ s case is over in court, you simply have to apply a little perspective. Its circumstances and not individuals and this is a time to ride it through. Clark hasn’t had the opportunity as of yet to do anything than field what is available to him which is free transfers, kids and players past their prime and loanees. Blame gaming isn’t the answer and i for one would like to see him have the opportunity to run the team as he wants too and not as he has too. Its like asking you to sell a lot of ice cream without a van. Houghton had some limitations but nothing like this season nothing like it at all. The old line about this being the same team as last year is far far far from the truth so just give it a rest and wait. Shifting blame from Clark one day Pannu next then Yeung then Mcdermott and then back to Clark and so on and so on is just not being realistic. English people love to blame, sometimes its just circumstance, but circumstances change and we just have to wait. We are gonna be OK in the long run.

          • RichardM says:

            James – Im curious on this point, and I’ve seen it used elsewhere to defend Clark – “It’s not the same team as last year”. Murphy and Fahey long terms absentees, Mutch sold to Cardiff. Apart from that?
            I’m talking full time staff here, not loanees.
            Fully agree Clark has been desperately unlucky with injuries, but that affects all teams at some point so you can’t put that forward as an over-riding excuse. If you’re going to defend Clark – then please offer up an explanation as to what the difference has been this year?

          • almajir says:

            So even if these loanees were major parts of the first team last year – like Boaz Myhill, Andros Townsend or maybe Erik Huseklepp, they don’t count?

            It is a changed team…

        • BhamCityJulian says:

          We’ll agree to disagree if his time at #HTFC was a failure. I expect their fans will say he was too.

          • RichardM says:

            Almajir – of the three you mention I would only state Boaz Myhill as a season long regular. While you’re at it why not throw in Peter Ramage and his 9 games? Supposedly we have a better keeper now in Jack Butland?

            The point is the first team squad should be built upon a backbone of 11/12 players wth loaness to supplement that squad. For that reason it’s futile to say “Lee Clark doesn’t have the same team becuase he lost Peter Ramage, Erik Huseklepp and Andors Townsend” . More to the point, given both Chris Hughton and Lee Clark have had to dip into the loan market dyring their time at the Blues – who would you say has been more successful?

          • almajir says:

            I didn’t say more (or less) successful, I said changed. That cannot be denied.

        • Blueboy 88 says:

          Clark has been heavily backed by an ambitious owner who gave him the biggest budget in League One.
          He signed 44 players in three years & had two failed promotion play offs.

          The Owner lost faith (his words) in Clark delivering promotion.
          Sacked him , employed Grayson & HTFC were promoted to the Championship within 3 months.

    • James Black says:

      Correct Andy

    • RichardM says:

      Fine Andy, just one problem with your logic – it was exactly the same situation Chris Hughton inherited last year, but the difference in playing style and results are quite staggering – so think people are entitled to express their concerns about Lee Clark.

  • Richard Granfield says:

    We need a team in the mould of Ron Saunders’ mid 80’s teamof hard men…..Tony Coton, Pat Van Den Hauwe, Mark Dennis, Noel Blake, Robert Hopkins, Mick Harford and in the youth team was Julian Dicks!!

  • bluenose08 says:

    get noel blake as manager as he has done a good job with the england kids !!

  • prewarblue says:

    Without wishing to give offence to any person,,,,,,it has been a pleasure Saturday and Sunday to read these ADULT comments ,,,,,,pro and anti each others opinions instead of rants,,,,,

  • James Black says:

    Prewarblue, I am in the opposite camp to you but you make a good point. One or 2 silly remarks but in general both sides are being rational at least which is great news. Just stay calm mate we are in a huge transition period and i understand yours and others frustration and sometimes anger, but its circumstances more than individuals and every team club business and even individuals go through this. Its not a time for blame its a time for waiting to see what the future will hold and keeping comments rational no matter what you feel is a big help right now.

  • Tonytiler says:

    I was one of the 800 odd who travelled to hull Saturday. Certain individuals were very poor. From the off. Sb set his team to play the ball straight through the middle. And this caused us problems all game. The only player who can open his pay packet this week and know he had earned his wages was the young hancox , When we were losing 2-0 / 3-0. There was no formation in the team. It was hard to see if we were playing. 4-5-1 or 4-6.-0. Elliot moved from left into the middle. Leaving hancox to mark 2 players. The 2nd goal Caldwell wanted the keeper to run out 30 yds to get the ball. When he and there player we’re 1 ft away from the ball. Butland pulled another great save off but was guilty of 3 of the goals. On saying this he was the guy who won us the pts last week. Huddersfield tore us apart. And with no disrespect to the tigers fans who have commented. I didn’t think hull were one of the better teams we have faced this season. Not sure where we go from this we seem to win then lose. There’s no consistency. Kro

  • picckko says:

    Why doesn’t Redmond start? One of our best players, scares the living daylights out of defenders, scores goals, makes goals, what more do we need. Come on Clarky, start him and let him help us to 6 points next 2 home games.

    And if you’re there (I will be on Saturday, working Tuesday so can’t) and Redmond makes a mistake, give the kid a break, he ain’t perfect and needs ENCOURAGEMENT and as fans that’s our job.

    KRO

  • Paul Carter The Voice Of Reason he says:

    Well it looks like sanity has broken out on OP. A rubbish performance and a crap result but instead of all the vitriol there were decent posts on it this time and I love to see away fans comments.

    Look everyone someone above just said it right. We can blame Clark, blame the players, blame Pannu, blame Yeung but at the end of the day we just have to tough this season out. I agree with the post which said there are 3 worse sides so don’t think we’ll go down. As I’ve said all along we’ll win some lose some and finish below mid table but above relegation. Carsons trial is the crux of the matter now. The result will directly impact the sale of the club. I think he’ll walk and still want an interest in the club with another Chinese investor coming on board.

    • Art Watson says:

      Paul,

      Assuming our finances are in order and we have new owners would you still want Clark to manage the club at the start of the new season.?

  • Roy Smith says:

    My worry is that when we were relegated under McJudas there were more than 3 teams worse than us but we still went down.
    Am currently crossing fingers legs and eyes in hope that history does not repeat itself.

  • JimBob says:

    In lee Clark we trust supporters are very quiet today. Joke manager with joke tattics, the worst manager in our history. and befor anyone starts I was there saturday singing my heart out at 5-0 down.


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