Often Partisan

Carson Demands BIH hold EGM

BIH have today announced to the HKSE that they have received letters from Carson Yeung and from U-Continent in their capacity as major shareholders demanding an EGM be held to remove three directors and appoint three directors of their choosing.

The announcement confirms that Carson and U-Continent has demanded the removal of Chairman Cheung Shing, Vice-Chairman (and Carson’s own brother-in-law) Victor Ma Shui-cheong along with Chen Liang from the board, and the appointment of Joanna Wang Manli (Carson’s common law partner), Li Wen Jun (a long time business associate of Carson’s and a low level employee at BIH) along with Gurung Arjun Kumar (Carson’s bodyguard and driver).

The announcement goes on to confirm that BIH are trying to establish the relationships between Carson, U-Continent and the proposed directors along with personal information to confirm the integrity, knowledge and background of the directors to satisfy both the HKSE and the Owners and Directors Test and that until that information has been received, no EGM can be called.

This is the rumour that I alluded to back in December and as I suspected, it was bound to come to fruition as BIH had no choice but to make an announcement due to the rules. This is the next shot in the war between the factions in BIH as Carson struggles to wrest power back from his prison cell in Stanley Prison.

As far as I’m aware, there are many difficulties with Joanna Wang Manli becoming a director. Firstly, as the common law partner of Carson I cannot believe she would be allowed to take the Owners and Directors test by the Football League; secondly, her name as given in this announcement doesn’t tally with the name she gave in court when she joined Carson’s repossession case (Wang Lifei) and one has to wonder if there is a discrepancy in her documentation – something that would pretty much disbar her becoming a director.

It’s important that BIH now play everything by the rules – with the stock still suspended HKSE will be watching them and no doubt demanding answers to more questions as this web of intrigue grows ever knottier; it seems almost definite now that there is relationship between the mysterious Wang Lei who owns U-Continent and Joanna Wang and no doubt in the coming weeks that too will emerge.

Due to the fact I’m typing this out at 7:30am in a Starbucks in Portland, Oregon, I’m sure you can understand that my personal connection online is extremely limited at the moment – however, I will endeabour to update this as and when I can.

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90 Responses to “Carson Demands BIH hold EGM”

  • rhees says:

    Firstly Dan enjoy your Holliday you have earned it.
    I don’t understand the political stupidness going on at board level but surly this should prove carsons involvement and the football league (after all the emails of complaint ) should do something

  • Adam E says:

    Ffs this is bordering on the verge of insanity. Why should CY be allowed any say in bihl as his shares and possessions have all been frozen? Have they not? This is ridiculous now

  • asif says:

    i thort carson yeung couldnt make these big decisions?

  • Graham says:

    Why does he need his driver and bodygaurd on the BOD?!?!?!

  • Gav_bcfc says:

    I can feel another book coming on !

  • MA24 says:

    Absolutely cannot make this stuff up. What a joke that company is – low level employee and his driver/body guard being elected to the board… Only a small step up then?
    Reminds me of a time when an 18 year old kid got elected to BCFC hierarchy – you know what they say, experience is everything!


  • Andy says:

    I actually laughed out loud when I read he was looking to install his missus and his driver as directors.

    This is beyond ridiculous.

  • Tony E says:

    Surely this categorically proves that CY is acting as a shadow director and that toothless organisation known as the Football League should act accordingly. Also his partners company are major shareholders in BIHL, what does that do to their combined shareholding, is it over 30% and would they (because of their relationship) have to make an offer for all BIHL shares? If so they would definitely fail the fit and proper owners test. Does this man think he can get away with anything, if so look around and see where you are! p.s. can understand the bodyguard/driver being put forward for a job on the board, after all he doesn’t have a lot to do at present, does he!

  • Lee says:

    am I the only one who has had to re read this just to comprehend what is going on? Driver? Mrs, bodyguard? Fit and proper test?

  • Lee says:

    Have the board not written to carsen and the mystery shareholder asking for clarification on who the mystery shareholder is and what relation to carsen they are? And have they not asked for shares to remain suspended until clarification is seen asking hkse to investigate what’s going on? Or have I misinterpreted the statement?

    • almajir says:

      They have, it says that in the announcement…

      • Lee says:

        This is going to get interesting

      • tmsblues says:

        This is of course very shrewd manoeuvring by the position on the Board. At first glance one would imagine that the opposition to Carsen on the Board would just be outvoted but of course to use their combined shareholding majority they have to get an EGM called for a vote! So whilst the shares are suspended and the HKSE is watching proceedings the Board of minority shareholders can play hardball. I fact it seems they are going further now and questioning the independence and validity of the major shareholders and their nominees. They might even push things in the direction of the FL.. now that would really upset CY cos all I think he wants is to totally own our football club. So, if we thought Panos was going to be out in a few weeks and replaced by a Carsen or Pannu stooge it seems that’s very unlikely for the foreseeable? Or have I got it wrong? What it does mean is NO SALE soon though as the politics are played out.

        • Lee says:

          Can carsen legally call for an egm as the major shareholder? does the fact he is the major share holder give him any rights or is he simply not allowed to have any say from his prison cell whatsoever? if not then he will have broken rules, if so what is the potential outcome of that? What powers do hkse have? If they have the power to take significant action then I would say it would be fair to assume that the board of bihl are very aware of this and know the implications of involving hkse, a very bold move, could this actually turn out to be a good thing for the club? Has carsen not acted in exactly the same manner as pannu(posting on here) by writing to bihl, in effect admitting he is at least trying to pull strings within the company and pressing the self destruct button? Interesting to see how this is going to pan out

          • DoctorD says:

            How it’s going to pan out? Or Pannu out perhaps. By they way, tmrsblue — agree with your thoughts entirely. Seems rather amatuerish of Carson/Pannu. Quite right the board are trying to flush their request out.

  • ChrisG says:

    If they put as much effort into BCFC as they did squabbling amongst themselves at BIH, we’d be top of the premier league!!!!!!!!

  • rhees says:

    Often partisan is the only sauce of information thanks Dan

  • Wayne says:

    You can only expect his bodyguard/Driver is a plant to souse and pass on info to him
    and I have read that his common-law wife has power of attorney so in command of all his assets.


  • The Francis Fake says:

    This looks like a desperate measure by CY in an attempt to wrest control from the incumbent board. yes he has the power to call an EGM as he directly and indirectly controls more shares than the opposition faction, however, it is now apparent that he can only call upon individuals to represent him on the board who are wholly unsuitable and unacceptable to the regulators. He looks like a desperate man when he is wanting to elect a driver and his Mrs with an alias. The board obviously called his bluff following the AGM. I feel the biggest worry going forward is that any potential sales seems a million miles away and must be impossible with the shareholders/board at war.

  • Old Git says:

    Can you explain please Dan what, if anything, do you think this has to do with the alleged struggle between Pannu and Panos?

  • Blue Lizard says:

    I’m thinking someone must be advising Yeung as he isn’t smart/sneaky enough to do this on his own…I’m thinking someone who is stickier than shit on a shoe,who has a barristers background and who is sly underhand and devious..someone who is harder to flush than a Floater……Wonder who it can be????

  • tmsblues says:

    As far as I can see they can only sack Panos by vote of the BIHL board and since the minority shareholding board members outnumber CY’s cronies then they cannot achieve their goal ! Likewise they cannot move to have an EGM whilst the minority Board members are questioning the suitability of the nominated replacements and asking for HKSE ‘support’ in that context.

  • Monty says:

    Firstly didn’t carson yeung break HKSE rules a few years back for buying shares under someone else’s name so how is it possible that u-continent can own shares when no body actually knows who runs it?
    Secondly how can the FA stand back and allow a convicted criminal to exert influence over the company that runs a football club,surely if it is carsons missus running u-continent that should break the rules even if not on the HKSE certainly FA rules a transfer embargo to stop these crooks from selling any players would be handy?

  • a Hawkins says:

    Hi mate, we got 20 free tickets for the Wigan game as part of the EZE wishes thanking local charities for there voluntary work. The charity was Homestart Northfield and at halftime we were presented with a ball with all the players signatures on. We are now looking at ways of raising money by either selling or auctioning the ball to raise funds for HOMESTART. As you are so respected by everybody in the Blues community I was wondering if you had any ideas of how or who I could talk too for the most raising money.
    Homestart is a great, worthwhile that is helping families with young children in the community.
    If you have any ideas or help please call me on this number 07894120612.
    Can I also say that Birmingham City and EZE Group made us feel so welcome on Saturday and would like to say a big thanks to all.

  • Blue is the Colour says:

    What does it take to loose the HKSE listing ? You would have thought there was a limit to the suspension period ?

    And if they do loose it how would that effect events ?

    Questions questions questions !

    Good job the team are doing well !

  • Richard r says:

    I’m only worried if pannu comes back. Since panos came in things are better

  • Eric says:

    As a Canadian Bluenose I want to thank Dan for keeping us informed, even on holiday. Hope you make it to Victoria Dan!!! Carsen should support selling – he will NEVER be welcome back at St. Andrews, same for Pannu.

    • Stevie W says:

      So if CY has his conviction overturned which in effect makes him innocent and he gets some serious investment to back him owning Blues then nobody is going to welcome him back???

  • rhees says:

    Surly surly the fl can see this farce now I’m ignorant to these things and not academic at all but body guard his misses on the board ffs its comical it worse than what blows out my American bull dogs arse and trust me that’s bad

  • macca salop blue says:

    Have a great time in Portland! Say hello to Lake Oswego and get hiking in the Columbia Gorge, plant a BCFC flag on top of what’s left of Mount St Helens or one of the other volcanos and tell them what Ridgewell was really like for us, like no amazing runs and goals from the half way line like he’s somehow managed for Portland Timbers! KRO.

  • Art says:

    Mickey Mouse Company .

    Mickey Mouse Board.

    Mickey Mouse Decisions.

  • Hillfield Blues says:

    CY is clearly laughing in the face of any regulatory body whether it be HKSE,FL or otherwise by trying to get his Mrs and bodyguard etc on the board. Such flaunting behaviour towards the authorities is what got the dummy in jail in the first place so let’s hope he trips himself up. The HKSE are hardly going to let BIHL resume trading off the back of this either. All strange,very very stange.

  • Wingman Blue says:

    No surprises here. Move along please.

    His driver is clearly a Gurkha. He will be totally loyal, and as such a placeman for Carson. This suggests that CY is clutching at straws in an effort to regain control. Clearly PP’s deposition has hit him hard.
    A loyal employee and a lover as directors on behalf of a convicted owner. Pressure must surely be directed towards Greg Dyke now – It’s time the Football League assumed some responsibility for all this. Who knows? They may be catalyst to finally end this log jam. (excuse the mixed metaphors).

  • Mineheadblue says:

    Hang on a minute….the driver’s name is KUMAR, he doesn’t have any brothers does he?? I’m beginning to get a sense of deja vu!!!

  • Richard Granfield says:

    The board if Carson has his way (and he probably will) is full of his relatives. Now he is adding employees! I predict that his favourite prison guard will be the the new CEO.

  • Masaccio says:

    So the new board, if Carson get’s his way might have a hairdresser and a driver on it? I’d advise him to get a good electrician, never know when they can come in handy.

  • mark says:

    well well just when you thought it was all over the return of the daddy appears……he just keeps snipping
    way….must have a good clientele…….

  • Agent McLeish says:

    If this is not blatant proof that CY is both influencing the club by proxy and also holds the majority of shares via proxy (via his and U-Continent shares) then I don’t know what is!

  • Strettonbluenose says:

    There is no way that Yeung is going to give away his stake in BCFC. He’ll twist and turn to keep hold of it. So what happens when the Football League realise that he’s still in charge? They don’t have the power to make him or his proxies sell the shares. What they do have the power to do is suspend Blues from the Football League. Be careful what you wish for! Stirring up the Football League could well do our club more harm than good.

  • BhamCityJulian says:

    Not disputing in theory persuing this through the FL, but let’s look at outcomes to see if they could be detrimental to the club. Its just possible the FL would rather do nothing then create an outcome they cause by their action.

    If the FL decide that CY as a BIH shareholder or BIH by virtue of breaching HKSe rules or requirement need to do something and that is not done then it starts a chain of sanctions such as fines, points deductions, transfer embargoes that is detrimental to BCFC as is and as a saleable entity.

    Do you think that CY and his cohorts can be forced to sell their shares and relinquish power or BIH can be ordered to remove directors I believe that you are mistaken

    If we’d thought ‘be careful what you wish for’ when we wanted the previous owners out maybe we’d not be in this mess now. Now again we need to repeat that phrase.

  • ThomThompson says:

    Well ! A Kumar no less, with a long pedigree of business acumen acquired behind the wheel of Mr Yeung’s Roller ! This just gets more and more darkly farcical as it goes on ! Why bother renewing your TV license when you’ve got this lot for entertainment?I can see Carson in his white tuxedo shimmying along the landings of Stanley Prison singing “money walks, money talks, dirty cash i want you, dirty cash i need you oh oh” Desperate !

  • ThomThompson says:

    I Like this bit : )

    In the First Letter, the Board also asked the First Requisitionist to arrange for the proposed new
    Directors to meet with the Nomination Committee of the Board at a mutually convenient time to
    be fixed in order for the Nomination Committee to ascertain whether the proposed new Directors
    have the character, experience and integrity and are able to demonstrate a up-to-standard level of
    competence commensurate with their positions as Directors; and to provide personal information
    required under the Football League Regulation 19 and Appendix 3 Owners and Directors Test in the
    United Kingdom (the “OADT”).

  • Roll up Roll up,the circus that is destroying our club has just rolled up in B9 again . Even more reason to DNM. KRO.

  • Davey says:

    £5 million for an 18 year old, blimey, bite their hands off and have him back on loan :) yada yada, the money will go to Hong Kong, no, it won’t.
    May make the difference to an already interesting season.
    Nb does anyone else think Simon Cowel looks like King Kong lol

  • Richard says:

    Guardian reporting that the football league have written to BCFC to see if Carsen is acting as a shadow director and still exerting influence. Interesting!

  • Richard Granfield says:

    I see the Football League has written to Blues asking for a clarification of CY’s role at the club.
    If he is found to have contravened FL rules it will mean the club being fined or deducted points or receiving a transfer embargo or even expelled from the League.
    I posted last week that the numerous e-mails to the FL from well meaning fans may cause more damage than good. I may prove to be right. I hope not.

  • Oldbluenose says:

    Without doubt, it could be a very big worry for us, As Richard Granfield say’s, It is only the club they can hurt, — NOT Carson Yueng,??.

  • Bluenosesol says:

    Looks like Dan’s work behind the scenes and our emails to the FL campaign is gaining momentum. Big news breaking today!!! KRO!!!!

    • Richard Granfield says:

      I admire your excitement at the news that the FL is investigating CY’s role at Blues. But looking ahead can you see anything other than Blues being damaged by it all?
      CY is in jail so he can hardly be punished further. A points deduction or fine may be imposed. Is that what you want?

      • bluenosesol says:

        My “excitement” has been garnered by the fact that Yeung and his henchman are not being allowed to continue their connivance from outside of the public domain and stifling any ability to progress the club and the team on behalf of the fans, rather they have been exposed big time and hence we can reap the benefits of their exposure and the ensuing wider debate to ultimately move on the ownership of our great club by removing the cancerous shackles of these distant charlatons…..but then again there are apparently those who delight in the club’s downfall and stagnation??

  • AussieBlue says:

    Dan; holiday first but if you get a chance, is Yang Yuezhou still involved in U-Continent or has he bailed out with all shares going to Joanna Wang Manli? Is he still lurking in the shadows?

    This is real desperation from Carson…almost quixotic in its nature.

  • rhees says:

    Had a reply from football leauge stated they have wrote to Club now asking what is going on with Carson having what appears some control over club from his prison cell.
    Lets see what happens if anything !!!!!!!

  • AussieBlue says:

    Nice one Rhees. It may be that if the FL decide there is control by a non -FAPP; the club itself will be penalised with a fine or even points deduction but I am of the view that it’s better to cut the cancer out and then rebuild the health of our beloved Blues and also do our bit to restore integrity to football ownership. We’re got it right on the field; next is in the boardroom!

  • Jeffers says:

    It’s unlikely that the football league will get involved with this until the end of the season. The only thing the league will be hoping for at the moment is BCFC (regardless of BIH) have enough funds to keep going and complete the saason’s fixtures if the worst comes to the worst and BCFC can’t pay salary’s players might get really jacked off and leave claiming default of contract terms then their really will be fan and brown stuff time. Even if this does not come to pass the Football league will have to look at the financial situation in the close season as these clowns would pass the owners and Directors Test next season !

  • ian says:

    just had my letter from FL, they have written to BCFC to see if Carson Yeung is still relevant to BCFC.
    at last the pot is stirring.

  • gerard says:

    I too had a reply on similar lines from the Football League think it was a standard polite reply after the outburst by Yeung for an EGM- which twisted there arm to make some statement I think it will go quiet for a while- as a can of worms has now been prised open just a little

  • chudlt says:

    Also had a letter from the football league they are at last taking an interest in CY and BCFC. Only hope it doesn’t backfire on us by them placing sanctions on the club.

  • uniquefreak says:

    Well done Almajir thanks to you this story is front page of the Guardian sports supplement today with the football league now also looking into this at long last. I quote from the Guardian: “The well-informed website Often Partisan, written by fan and author Daniel Ivery […]”. You should be proud of your good work!

  • atko says:

    Thing is guys, CY has NO involvement with BCFC & I am sure the club will confirm that. His only involvement is with BIHL. I agree, BCFC is BIHL’s only asset therefore there is an argument that he then becomes involved but all activity at BIHL never seems to have anything to do with the club, it only seems to do with who has what power on the BIHL board. I’m sure the Football League will say that has no direct connection to the club therefore nobody has breached any rules. However, I believe that the HKSE enquiries should unveil he has broken THEIR rules but the fact that what is blatantly obvious to us all from as far as over here in the UK, thanks to Dan, the HKSE still seem to be dragging their heals over taking any action whatsoever. Sure, trading is suspended but I feel that the longer they do this, the more likely this is going to affect the club sooner or later! People criticise the FL for not doing more, but for me, it’s the HKSE that are doing nothing at all & I ask what sort of an Exchange is this? It’s ridiculous!!

    • AussieBlue says:

      Atko – sorry mate but you are incorrect. While the Premier League FAPP test is more stringent than the FL one; the FL is strengthening its position to reach back into ‘where did the money come from’ and ‘who really owns the club?’ They would not have written the letter to BCFC that is mentioned in the reply I and others received otherwise.
      If CY controls and influences over 43% of BIHL shares, then he controls and influences about 41% of BCFC because BIHL comprises about 96% of its activities. This is well above the 30% threshold if it can be shown that his wife owns the shares held by U-Continent. It doesn’t matter how many shell companies, Cayman Isl, BVI companies or HKSE listed companies you hide behind; control is control if it can be proven. The FL has taken action and that is good. The HKSE has also taken action – the shares remain suspended don’t they? Also the HKSE is now honing in on BIHL and demanding answers to some questions. That the situation has gone this far only shows how fair the free enterprise system is…but breaching the rules will eventually be dealt with. Hopefully, without damage to our club.

      • Mr Sceptic says:

        Sadly, I think I have to agree with you. But one thing is absolutely certain is: the only winner in this will be lawyers. I hate to think how much these parasites will be creaming off for their “advise” and procrastination.

      • Hillfield Blues says:

        Aussie- what is the worst scenario from a BIHL perspective should the HKSE be satisfied that CY is attempting to gain more control by deception. Could they banish them from the HKSE indefinitely and where would that leave the situation as far as BCFC is concerned?

        • AussieBlue says:

          G’Day Hillfield. My own opinion is that they would go for the director/s trying to pervert the system first, not the company. When companies are public, exchanges are very reluctant to compulsorily de-list them. De-listings usually occurs when someone wants to privatise a company and take it out of the public domain – the HKSE would also have to approve that action. Worse case scenario is CY and his wife are barred as directors but still decide to keep their shareholdings! If they sell out that would be better for BCFC. I sense that the ‘good’ directors of both BIHL and BCFC are doing a valiant job in trying to prevent adverse actions on the club. Maybe Dan disagrees but that’s the way I see it.

          • Hillfield Blues says:

            Ok thanks. Hard to see CY selling his shares willingly if such a situation arose as the listing itself is worth more than the club. Bet your enjoying the rays while we all freeze in Brum! (Used to live in Perth WA and should have stayed there!!)

          • AussieBlue says:

            Perth’s a beautiful city Hillfield…lived there for 4 years myself and love going back. I agree CY will always be a reluctant seller of BCFC – it’s all he’s got really and it represents more than just the financial side…it’s a matter of face and pride. Could he ever be forced to sell? I honestly don’t know; that act in the Pantomime is still being written. The old ‘possession is nine points of the law’ adage applies I think. But if that possession can be proven to be the proceeds of illegal activity……it’s a whole new game and set of rules.

  • Richard Granfield says:

    On a brighter note Blues Under 18’s beat their Blackpool counterparts 2-1 AET in the 4th Round of the FA Youth Cup. They will play either Liverpool or Derby in the next Round.
    Blues scorers were Deadfield and McFarlane.

  • Dave Mann says:

    Off to Leeds tommorow and hoping we can continue our super form and having zigic on the bench the Leeds will be worried he doesent score another four like a couple of years ago….we’re be homing on the playoffs with victory then it’s all about the baggies next saturday with the top tear open and a near full house at St. Andrews it’s looking good on the pitch… Off the Is not even worth talking about so I won’t…kro

  • Raymondo says:

    Once the Mail announced that CY had demanded that BIHL replace threee of the elected directors on the board with three of his own choosing I immediately relayed this information to the FL by e-mail. they acknowledged that they have been in touch with BCFC, that they know about CY’s imput and that he is a convicted person and are demanding an explanation. It couold well lead to a points deduction but I think we can still survive in this division under GR. I think it has to lead to a removal of CY’s interference to satisfy both the HKSE and the FL. Has to happen doesn’t it. Truth will out in the end.KRO

    • Shirley Blue says:

      Problem with getting the FL to investigate this is where is it getting us? They cannot force BIHL to sell the club so if all this results in sanctions against the club in terms of heavy fines and even worse points deductions then that for me is disasterous. I would accept some short term pain if in the long run it gets rid of BIHL but I cannot see that the FL has the power to do that. Maybe I am missing something but I don’t like the way this is going.

  • Dave Mann says:

    I agree Shirley Blue and the only people who will suffer are us supporters who go week in week out pay our money and see the team playing well and pushing up the table.. And now it could all go pear shaped with fines and points deductions which is the last bloody thing we need at the moment…don’t like where this is going either..smell of shit!!! Kro

  • AussieBlue says:

    Hi Mates,
    Did some bedtime reading last night. An interesting paper from a UN department, about identifying and seizing the assets of organized crime and money laundering. Nothing to do with anything on this blog of course; just sharing it with you for interest. One paragraph says:
    “An asset recovery case is an essential element of an effective strategy to obtain a criminal
    conviction (if possible) and recover the proceeds and instrumentalities derived from organized crime
    offences. Practitioners should not disregard the need for prosecutions and convictions for such
    offences. However, States also need to achieve confiscation of the profits and instrumentalities. A
    conviction does not automatically lead to confiscation. A criminal may be happy to serve time
    knowing that his or her assets will be available upon release, or that his or her family may continue
    to enjoy the proceeds of crime.”

    Apparently a group called the Camden Asset Recovery alliance was set up around 2005 to encourage inter-agency cooperation around the world on tracking, identifying and if possible seizing gained by organized crime and money laundering. It’s not easy as organized crime is actually better organised than the authorities – by their own admission! Jurisdiction is a big issue – the prosecuting state may not have jurisdiction in the country where the laundered assets reside; unless Camden-like cooperation takes place. However, seizures have taken place and the assets auctioned off with the proceeds shared between rightful claimants and the countries involved in the enforcement.

    Just found this an interesting UN paper; that’s all.

    • Hillfield Blues says:

      Interesting stuff. The first question it throws up I suppose is where exactly his money laundering activity took place and if their relevant authorities would co-operate in trying to obtain proceeds of crime. But I certainly see your point. It would be game over big time for CY if they chose to persue him. Wonder why it’s never being mooted before as he is after all a convicted money launderer?

  • AussieBlue says:

    When there are other people involved in the shadows, I suppose the authorities don’t want to moot too early. In the same UN document it goes into what is called ‘concealment or dissipation of tainted property.’ Of course it’s very difficult to conceal a whole football club but not so hard to conceal the funds used to buy it and the true identities of the shareholders behind the holding company.

    If I had an academic interest in this matter, I would probably begin by google searching: “Manual on
    International Cooperation for the Purposes of Confiscation of Proceeds of Crime” Published by the UN in 2012.

    • Hillfield Blues says:

      Perhaps the result of his appeal could be a factor with the emphasis being on wheather CY had full knowledge that funds were laundered?

      • Adam True Blue says:

        I wouldn’t imagine that knowledge of the fact makes any difference, if the club is or has been funded by laundered monies or the proceeds of ill gotten gains then confiscation of such should still apply, shouldn’t it? Kro

  • Confused Of Kings Heath says:

    Having read a great deal about the Mafia I can state that many family bosses had a bodyguard/driver who was being groomed to take over the family. Drivers get a lot of time alone with the boss when there is no one else there to overhear what is said, and is able to take part in the planning of bumping off rivals etc.
    Maybe there is going to be a “St Valentine’s massacre” organized.

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